The 12 Days of Breeders is a series of interviews conducted with members of the Dog Breeder Society who are doing innovative, creative, and inspiring things in their dog breeding business. In each of these interviews we cover challenges each breeder has encountered, and how they’ve overcome those challenges to find success in their breeding program. Join me for all twelve of these interviews for inspiration, and countless actionable tips you can use to overcome (or avoid) challenges in your own dog breeding program! You can check out all of the interviews in this series here.
Elli Farmer & A + E Bernedoodles
Struggling with Instagram? Having a hard time figuring out what to post? You’ll love this episode! Elli does a mini training on her best tips and tricks for Instagram, what’s she’s doing, how it’s working, and ways you can dabble with these techniques to better your Instagram reach and conversion.
Check out Elli’s Bernedoodles on Instagram
Transcript
Julie Swan | 0:00
Welcome to the Honest Dog Breeder Podcast with me, your host, Julie Swan. Where each week, we dive in to discuss all things dog breeding so you can build a breeding business you love, producing dogs that fulfill their owners’ dreams. I believe you can have an honest dog breeding program that also pays the bills.
So throw those pods in your ears while you’re cleaning kennels. I’d love to join you. You guys are in for a treat today.
Today we have Elli Farmer of A + E Bernedoodles. Elli, thanks so much for coming on today. Can you tell us, how did you get into breeding Bernedoodles?
Elli Farmer | 0:35
Yeah, so thanks for having me, Julie. I’m like super excited about this. So we got into breeding because my husband was in school and he was trying to figure out what his career path would be, and I was the sole provider for our home.
And so because of that, I quickly realized that what I was doing as a part-time teacher was not covering our bills. And so I did get into it to make a little bit of extra money. We obviously loved our dog and we love our dogs still today.
But in the end, it was a means to an end to be able to put my husband through school. And now that he’s finished with school and in his career, we really liked it. And we’re like, we’re already this far into it.
We have health-tested dogs. We’ve learned a ton about the Bernedoodle breed. And so we’ve just kind of stuck with it.
And it’s been really fun to do puppies and kids at the same time.
Julie Swan | 1:20
Yes. And you have how many kids?
Elli Farmer | 1:22
So I have four kids. I have three sons. And then we just barely had a baby three weeks ago.
Julie Swan | 1:28
Yes. I know. Thank you so much for making the time given everything that’s going on.
So that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I think a lot of people get started in dog breeding because of the extra, the extra money it makes.
I mean, it’s a fun way. You get to be home with the kids. You get a lot of extra things.
And so yeah. So tell us a little bit about the doodle world, the breeding of Bernedoodles. How do you, how do you feel about that?
Elli Farmer | 1:54
Yeah. So when we started breeding doodles, there’s a lot of people out there that say that people who breed doodles are money hungry and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Cause their dogs are so expensive and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
And I get it. I can see why that would be frustrating, especially when you’re looking for a dog and you’re attracted to the doodle mixes. And then you see the price tag and you’re like, what the heck?
You’re not even breeding a purebred dog. And so I can see how that would be controversial, but in the same breath, I also know how expensive dog breeding is and doodles, especially, if you see someone who’s doing the mini sizes or anything else, there’s a big expense that goes into getting a dog pregnant. Because oftentimes you have to use the vet a lot more than you would if you were just breeding two per se, Bernese Mountain dogs, which we’ve done a litter of Bernese Mountain dogs. And it was a significantly cheaper litter than my doodle litters just because of the need for using a vet to artificially inseminate or TCI a dog.
Julie Swan | 2:51
And you mean it was cheaper to create and have the litter.
Elli Farmer | 2:54
Yeah.
Julie Swan | 2:54
Yeah. I agree. I know that’s my German Shorthairs are so easy, but they don’t bring in the kind of the extra money.
Yes.
Elli Farmer | 3:00
Yeah. And so then with that in mind, when we started doing doodles, additionally, you have to do, obviously you should be doing the health testing to make sure your dogs are compatible and you’re not breeding in issues into your lines. But then there’s also the added expense of working with a lot of new puppy buyers.
For us, we’ve found most of our clients are actually first time dog owners. And with the first time dog owner, who’s getting a doodle and they want it to be their child more than they want it to be their dog. There is an added expense of adding in help for those people, whether that’s education.
So building education out for your buyers, or hiring someone to do training that can be sent virtually. So we have a trainer that we work with that sends out training programs to our clients to help them. And that’s just included in the puppy price.
And then the other thing is transporting and getting puppies around the country. So we include that fee in our puppy price. So there’s just, I don’t know, every breeder has expenses.
And for me, again, the purpose of getting into breeding wasn’t to have a really expensive hobby. It was to have money in my pocket. And so we’ve had to be very aware of how much things cost, and also supply and demand.
Like it’s just basic economics. Unfortunately, if you’re breeding a pit bull mix or a pit bull, it just doesn’t sell for the same amount as a doodle mix because of the supply and demand. Not that one dog’s better or worse than the other.
It just, people who are looking at doodles just have a higher price point oftentimes.
Julie Swan | 4:26
It’s a different demographic of people. I find it fascinating though. I mean, it’s still, I know you’ve told me this before, but I still find it fascinating that most of your people are first time dog owners.
I think I may in all four or 500 dogs I’ve sold, maybe sold one dog to a family that had never had a dog before. It’s just interesting, do you know where that, why that would be?
Elli Farmer | 4:48
I would think it’s marketing on part of doodle breeders specifically, because as a doodle breeder, it’s like, well, what are the positive points of getting a doodle?
Generally, you’re going to get a dog that’s low to non-shedding. So it’s like, oh, I’m not going to have hair in my house. That’s one reason why people don’t get a dog is because they don’t want to deal with the hair in their home.
I get it. I don’t like the hair in my home either. So I think that’s one thing where that opens up the dog market to someone who’s looking for something.
And then additionally, doodles are also marketed as another child because they are so high maintenance. And so couples and millennials my age who are not choosing to have children, or can’t have children, oftentimes are like, well, I’m going to get a dog and this is going to become my child. And oftentimes they’re people that are just graduating college.
So they haven’t had the lifetime experience to get a dog or it’s a mom who has kids. And she’s like, you know what? It’s time to get a dog for the kids.
I like the idea that it doesn’t shed and they’re they’re really well marketed as a family dog. Are they perfect family dogs? No, but no dog’s a perfect family dog because every family is different.
Julie Swan | 5:48
Yeah, no, exactly. Your dogs are darn cute, too. Like I can totally see this visibility factor that comes with them.
You guys, I’ll have to put some pictures in the show notes. You got to check them out.
Elli Farmer | 5:59
The Muppet look.
Julie Swan | 6:00
Yeah, they’re very adorable. And so marketing and the business side of it has always been a strong suit for you. You have a beautiful business brain.
I love it. Can you tell us a little how you got into marketing, where did marketing really work well for you?
Elli Farmer | 6:15
Yeah, so for us, most of our marketing is actually done through Instagram and social media. We use Instagram as our main platform and then everything that’s put on our Instagram is shared to our Facebook, which I’m not very active on. But when we started breeding, our first litters were born in 2019.
And so we did get a ride the wave of 2020, which was really helpful for our program. But in the same breath, I focused extensively on Instagram and building an Instagram resume is what I like to call it, where on our Instagram we show the puppy raising process. We show what things look like in our home, and then we show like why you would pick a puppy from us.
And our Instagram isn’t huge. We have a little less than 4000 followers. But in the end, the majority of our buyers always come through our Instagram channel first.
That’s where they generally find us. And it’s been that way since we started in 2019.
Julie Swan | 7:08
Yeah. And you had a really good point you brought up the other day when we were talking and you said, you know, I have around 4000 followers, but that’s not a problem at all. And what’s your take on the follower numbers?
Elli Farmer | 7:22
Yeah. So I have been through the gamut of like, oh, I wish I had more followers or I need to be X, Y and Z and I need to really grow the following so it’s easier to sell puppies is something that I’ve always thought. But in the same breath.
Our small followings really cultivated a nice little community where people – past buyers and prospective buyers – will message me on Instagram and in the same breath, that vanity number of having 20,000 followers, it doesn’t impact the amount of puppies that I have to sell. So even if I had a million followers, I would only ever have up to 80 puppies to sell in a year. So I have a million followers, but I can’t sell to them, if that makes sense.
So having the nice small number is easier to manage mentally. And it still is putting money in my bank account.
Julie Swan | 8:10
I think it’s nice, too, because you want to be at a place where all your dogs are sold before they’re ready to go home, but then not so much where you’re like, I think it gets a little stressful. I’ve talked to some readers like, well, I have a waitlist out two years. I’m like, ugh, like, that just feels yucky because people’s lives change so much in two years.
And I bet halftime you call those people, they’ve gone some other direction, you know, and and so I do. I, I like that. I always joke.
I’m like, I just had enough buyers to sell the puppies I have coming to my website every month, that would be great.
Elli Farmer | 8:41
Yeah, exactly. Because in the end, I agree, people’s lives change so quickly over two years, even thinking back two years ago for us, I wouldn’t be getting a puppy. If my name got called, I’d be like, I’m so sorry.
Please push us another two years out. And then in two more years, I’d be like, actually, we already got a dog because the time, you know, so yeah, I agree. Having a long waitlist is fantastic.
Like I admire people who do that, but in the same breath, it’s worked well for us to just focus on selling our current litter and moving through that.
Julie Swan | 9:10
Yeah, I love it. I love it. And since you have such awesome success with Instagram, I teaser guys, we’re about to learn a lot about getting your Instagram working better for you and some of Ellie’s best tips and tricks.
So do you want to lead in the first?
Elli Farmer | 9:25
Yeah.
Julie Swan | 9:25
Yeah.
What do you think is first, easiest low-hanging fruit?
Elli Farmer | 9:29
Yeah. So I think the easiest low-hanging fruit is to actually start with your bio. So on Instagram, they have so many features and they’re constantly changing, but the ones that have stayed constant throughout is you start with your profile picture, make sure that one’s well lit.
And either you’re in the picture or your dog’s in your picture, or if you have a recognizable logo, ours is our logo. It’s been that way since we started. And then under that, you’ll have your name.
And remember that’s searchable. So when you do your name, make sure you include your actual name. If you are running your kennel under your name, if that makes sense.
Obviously, if you’re running your kennel and you don’t want to be known, which some people are like, I don’t want to be associated in my kennel. Totally fine. But anyways, have your name or your business name there.
And then a hyphen and then whatever dog breed you’re breeding. So ours has Bernedoodle right there next to our name, because when someone looks Bernedoodle or Bernedoodle puppy, I want my profile to show up for them. And then underneath that, you enter into what’s called your bio.
And these are four lines. I see so many breeders who put a ton of things in there that don’t make sense to a buyer. So for instance, if you do some type of curriculum with your puppies, like badass breeder or puppy culture, avidog, those are the three that I see in people’s bios.
Those words are a foreign language to puppy buyers. And so don’t put that in your bio. It’s a waste of space for you and for the person who’s going to look at your Instagram and think about getting a puppy from you.
So definitely break that down. So ours says Mountain Raised Family Loved Bernedoodles, because in the end, we’re in the Utah mountains, they show up in our Instagram pictures and videos a lot. And then my kids help raise the puppies because obviously my oldest is six.
So we have a six year old, a five year old, a two year old, and then a newborn. And so obviously they’re participating with the puppies in one way or another. And then under that, you want to talk about what your page will do for someone who’s looking for puppies.
So ours says get your daily puppy dopamine boost. And then under that, you want to have some type of call to action. So ours invites people to check out our website or to apply for a future puppy.
And then we have a link directly to our website that takes them to our puppy application. So I think you could do this in five minutes, look at your bio and be like, hey, do I have any of these badass breeder or health tested, or these really vague terms that don’t really mean anything to the average person looking for a puppy, and break it down and be like, okay, how can I make this a marketing term to my potential clients? Like how can I personify this and make it so that someone reads it and they’re like, oh, this is the breeder that is da da da da da da.
I’ve seen one that I thought was really cute is they talked about how they bring in humor and puppies and their Instagram is so funny because they have so many funny like memes about puppies. And then the breeder shows up talking about how she’s raising puppies too. So it’s a really good blend and it works well for her personality.
I’m not that funny, so it wouldn’t make sense for me to put something silly in my bio. But yeah, so take your bio and make it so it has your name, your breed, has a link to your website, and then doesn’t have any vocabulary words for a buyer to try to learn.
Julie Swan | 12:39
I know the joke in the military is like, I’d go home and everything in the military is an acronym. Oh, we got PT. I told my kids we were doing PT the other day.
They’re like, what the heck is that? I’m like, it’s physical training. They’re like, what are you talking?
I was like, working out kids, it’s working out. I realized, you know, you get into these things where we’re in dog breeding and it’s like, it’s so funny. We talk about AI.
My first thought with AI is artificial insemination, not artificial intelligence. It’s so funny I have to be careful when I’m talking to non-dog people. But yeah, I think you’re right.
There’s so many opportunities to really pull yourself away and say something unique and special you do in your bio that will grab the attention of your buyers. So I love that. Thank you for pointing that out because I see it all the time.
Elli Farmer | 13:24
I know. Well, it’s like as breeders, we get in the thick of it. And so we start marketing to other breeders instead of to families.
Julie Swan | 13:32
What does that mean?
Elli Farmer | 13:35
So, yeah. So you see, even in your posting, so you’ll see breeders who sit and they create these beautiful posts that are so educational, but in the end, the only person who understands it is a dog breeder who’s been in the thick of it.
Because again, like you say, they’re like, I did ENS and I did ESI and I did my AI and I did my TCI and people are like, what are you talking about? And so breaking it down and helping it become, for a person who isn’t in breeding to understand is so important, because in the end, if the only people who can look at your page and understand it as another dog breeder, you’re not advertising to a family, you’re advertising to another breeder. Something else that I see again is like with the puppy curriculum.
I’ve seen people say, this is why we use Avidog instead of badass breeder because we’ve seen better results with Avidog. And that’s the post. And it’s like, well, what results did you see with Avidog?
And you don’t even need to mention you’re using Avidog because the average buyer is not going to look into these different puppy curriculums. They’re just going to say, oh, because my breeder used the puppy curriculum, my puppy sleeps through the night in it’s crate. Or my puppy doesn’t jump up on me, you know?
So really breaking down what you’re doing and why it matters to the buyer is way more important than having all these buzzwords saying, oh, I’m doing this, this, and this that would look good on your resume to another breeder, but mean nothing again to your average puppy client.
Julie Swan | 14:59
I definitely agree with you. And I, I like that you’re explaining that that’s marketing to other breeders instead of to the buyers because the buyers don’t really know. I think a lot of buyers don’t understand that there’s a variation in how much work you can put in as a breeder.
I think they just think like it’s a job and it has to get done. And does this person do it or not? And I’m finding more buyers are getting educated on the differences, but I don’t see it still as like everyone. In the way where I feel a lot of breeders are going on their social media.
And we still have that little thing on the shoulder that says, are you good enough to breed? You’re like trying to prove you’re good enough. And that’s why people are posting this stuff.
Well, I’m using a curriculum. I must be a better breeder. See I’m a good breeder. But nobody knows, like your buyers don’t know.
They don’t, they really don’t care. I mean they care, but they care about the result as you pointed out.
Elli Farmer | 15:50
Yeah. And I feel like too, as breeders, I get it. It’s an industry that you can be really insecure in because in the end, every breeder has crap happen. Like there’s not a single breeder that I know of that doesn’t have something they’re embarrassed about in their program.
Like that’s just the nature of dog breeding. For us, we lost a litter to a virus and it was awful. And it’s like, I don’t know how to talk about this or explain this to buyers because the litter was full.
And then I had to reach out to people and say, actually, sorry, we only have four puppies to sell instead of what we originally started with. But in the end, me getting on and feeling like I need to show what a good breeder I am by saying, well, we use this curriculum and all other curriculums suck. Like that’s, again, it’s not helping a buyer want to buy for me.
It’s just me helping my ego. And so I think looking at your post when you’re creating it and being like, am I creating this to help a buyer see the time, and the effort, and the love that I’m giving to my puppies? Or am I creating this because I want other breeders to see, oh, she’s such a good breeder because she’s doing X, Y, and Z.
And if it can’t pass that test, then maybe don’t post it. I don’t know. One that I saw that was really funny.
Maybe, I don’t know. It was so funny. But this breeder was like, we’re no longer using curriculum because we’ve realized that all curriculum are overstimulating for puppies.
So we’re a better breeder because we just use a paintbrush to touch our puppies. We don’t handle them with our hands until they’re so many weeks old and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it just was like, okay.
In the end, they didn’t need to say that curriculums are bad. They could have just said, hey, we’re transitioning into this and we’re excited because we’re going to make calmer puppies. The end.
You didn’t need to say like other breeders are bad because they’re doing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s just, this is what we’re doing and this is why, and this is how it helps your puppies, but anyway.
Julie Swan | 17:38
I never find that putting down other breeders is a marketing tactic that works. It makes you look scummy.
Elli Farmer | 17:45
Yeah, it does. It makes you look, yeah. It doesn’t look good.
Julie Swan | 17:48
Yeah. You were telling me the other day that you feel like you see so many of the same things over and over and over.
Do you like, why do you think that is? Or do you think that works? Or what do you think the idea is there?
Elli Farmer | 18:02
Yeah. So the same thing that I see over and over and over on Instagram is here’s puppies. Here’s a video of a puppy.
Here’s a video of a puppy to a trending sound. And that’s the post. And that in my opinion is really, it will help you with consistency.
If you’re trying to be consistent on social media and you’re like, this is the best I can do today. I’m posting my pictures. I’m posting my video.
I’m not thinking too much about it. Okay. I get it.
I I’ve been there too. But in the same breath, if you can elevate your content just a little bit by doing a couple of things, I think you can really stand out from the market. So when it comes to video, most people don’t listen to Instagram with the sound on.
So even if you have that cute video of the puppy and the sound is adorable that goes behind it, no one’s going to know what you’re talking about, if you don’t caption the video, or add some type of visual hook. So going through and adding just that simple CC and then whatever the sound is that’s behind.
The one that’s been going around right now is obviously there’s a debate with Kamala and Donald Trump and in it, Donald Trump expressed that people were eating the dogs and the cats. And so there’s a lot of people posting videos of their puppies, like looking silly. And then with that sound in the background, and it’s funny, like it is funny.
It’s like, Oh my goodness, this is hilarious. But if you don’t hear the sound, you just see a puppy with big eyes and you’re like, what’s wrong with the dog? So if they just captioned it and then added something in the comment underneath about, obviously you’re not going to get political or whatever, but just thought it was a funny reel, then someone might be inclined to turn the sound on and watch the video one more time.
The other thing that people do is they don’t break down concepts. And so they’ll film themselves doing the 10 step puppy massage, or puppies working through curriculum, and they don’t apply it to their buyer. Again, one that I saw that was super cute from a, a Golden Retriever breeder, is she took her puppies and they were newborn puppies.
So, you know, their eyes aren’t open, and their ears aren’t open. And she filmed a two second video of her talking to these newborn puppies who can’t hear. And she’s like, Hey puppy, puppy, and no reaction from the puppies, just sleeping and being newborns.
And then she’s like a couple of days later, she does the same thing. And you can tell one puppy hears her because it starts wiggling around and kind of wakes up. And then she does the same thing again, again, a two to three second video of her just saying, Hey puppy, puppy.
And then you notice more puppies waking up. And in the video she shows, she’s like, look at, you can tell when their ears are opening. And then in the caption, she talks about that development point in a puppy’s life, when they go from not being able to hear anything, to all of a sudden they can hear things.
And she talked about how as a breeder, it’s so fun to see that. And so you watching that, you can connect with her and say, Oh my goodness, she’s such a good breeder. Cause she noticed is when the puppies hear things and it’s like every breeder knows when the puppies are hearing things, we’re all watching our puppies.
We all know that, but she took that concept and she broke it down into a way that a puppy buyer sees it. And they’re like, wow, that’s so cool. That puppies open their ears and even cooler that this breeder is so in tune with her little puppies.
Julie Swan | 21:07
It brings your buyers on the journey too, which I think is fun. They get to be a part of it. I like that made it tangible in a way where she wasn’t just talking and saying, Hey, dog’s ears are closed when they were born. And then, you know, yeah.
Elli Farmer | 21:20
Yeah. And I think it really helps again, create that connection between her and the buyer and side note, her Golden Retriever puppies are significantly more expensive than any Golden Retriever puppy. And I know she’s not in it for the money.
She’s just a great marketer and she’s created that demand for her puppies.
Julie Swan | 21:36
Yeah, no, I like that. It’s great. So all in all, do you think the trends are worth it at all?
I mean, they are always like, Oh, trending audio. Do you want trending audio, or do these things matter?
Elli Farmer | 21:50
Personally, I haven’t seen trending audio or the trends influence a breeder’s account, unless they’re putting a lot of time into creating the trend, if that makes sense. So for instance, they find one that really is applicable to dog breeding and they come up with a really witty caption and really, really witty text. That’s going to go on the video that ties the trend into their business.
But if you’re just going to be dancing around on Instagram or just putting pictures of your dogs or videos of your dogs over a trending sound, I don’t think it creates that much of an impact. Personally, I found my most viral reels, or the ones that have done the best for me, have been ones where I’ve created controversy. So by highlighting something that people would disagree with.
And again, I’m not making like controversy, like my curriculum that I use is better than anyone else’s. Like, no, that’s not the controversy, but like controversy for doodle breeds is you can talk about their high maintenance coats and how I spend more money on my dog’s coat than I do on my own hair to get it groomed. Other controversies, like obviously a really easy one that you can talk about is the adopt, don’t shop market if you want to have thick skin.
Because you will have haters in the comments, but again, every comment helps boost your posts further in the algorithm. And it will get in front of people who are looking at a doodle. And then hopefully your comments back are educational enough that it’s beneficial, but in the same breath.
Yeah. So creating controversy, having captions. So again, people aren’t listening to what you’re saying.
So having texts on your videos will help with moving them forward. And then the last thing is going through and editing your video in an outside software besides Instagram. So I like CapCut and I’ll go and I’ll take a video that’s two minutes long and I’ll cut it down to the 30 seconds.
So I’m cutting out all the dead space in the video. So it moves quicker and then I’ll upload it to Instagram and add the music behind it. And then the text on top.
And I found that those things are really helpful. So creating controversy, having some type of captioning on the video or text, and then editing a video that’s longer to be shorter.
Julie Swan | 24:00
Yeah. Which is more like the trailer model, right? So it’s like just scene, scene, scene, scene no dead space.
Because people have no attention span these days. But I like your point to edit the video outside of Instagram, because as of this time and we’re recording in September of 2024, there is no way to splice videos on Instagram. You have to re upload and cut out the different sections. And so that’s very time consuming.
Whereas I believe InShot and you said CapCut. Yeah. So those two software, both you can splice and play around and move things.
And yeah. Oh my gosh, it’s much faster. So once that’s done, then you can upload it to Instagram and add all your fun stuff.
Yeah.
Elli Farmer | 24:40
So much faster.
Julie Swan | 24:41
I want to throw out too on the trends. I think there’s a misunderstanding and you have to see what your goal is. Right.
But in, even if a trending audio or a trending video got you more followers, the question is, do they convert to buyers? Because at the end of the day, that’s really the algorithm we care about. Right.
Like I, I don’t really care if I have 500 people, you know what I mean? I just, whatever I need to sell my dogs, as long as my dogs are selling, that’s what matters.
Elli Farmer | 25:10
Yeah.
Julie Swan | 25:10
Yeah.
Elli Farmer | 25:11
Yeah. No, I agree. So in the end, creating virality or again, having a million people see your video, is it helpful if you don’t have puppies to sell? Or if in the end, they’re not your ideal puppy buyer?
If you get a bunch of people that are just there to watch you do funny things on camera, but aren’t there to buy a dog, it doesn’t impact your bottom line.
Julie Swan | 25:36
Yeah. And I do find a lot of people hide some of the struggles in breeding when they post, they never talk about difficulties. And so I find that what you’re doing is you’re almost doing like a bait and switch with your buyers when they’re like, Oh my gosh, this is really just like having a teddy bear.
And then they get the dog and they’re like, they weren’t ready for this. And they weren’t ready for this. And I feel like it’s, it’s almost like, I don’t know, it’s not the best because they’re not prepared.
So then you have more work later working with them.
Elli Farmer | 26:08
Yeah, no, I agree. It’s so on Instagram again, they have obviously the different features and I found a good way to test content, specifically things that have to do with the hard parts of owning whatever breed you have is in stories, and putting up polls and questions. And you can see how people react there and then create content based on your stories because your stories expire.
So in the end, if you’re going to talk about, so for instance, doodles can be neurotic, because of the blending of breeds, you can get a little bit of craziness in there. Sometimes, good breeders breed away from that and consistently move towards a calmer, more balanced stock. But in the end, especially in the F1 generation, you’ll get puppies where it’s like, oh dear.
And so in the stories, you can talk about that. And obviously never in a million years, am I going to show up on my stories and be like, this puppy sucks. Like this puppy is the worst. But I can jump and be like, look at, you can see the energy difference between these puppies and highlight it there.
And then ask people if they can see it or if they’ve had experience with a puppy that is a little bit more busy. And if I’m getting crickets and it’s like, okay, obviously this must be something that I’m just dealing with. Or if I get a lot of responses from people, because people are more likely to message you privately about problems they have with your breed of dog than they are to comment on a real, because people want to be polite for the most part.
And so it really is helpful there. And then you can create content off of that too. It’s a good tester place and you can build a lot of, intimacy for lack of a better word, with your audience in your stories by sharing about the hard parts.
And then when you find that thing that really resonates with people, you can build it into a post and also helps you not say something stupid on a post. So you can practice in your stories. And then once you have the concept or find about how you want to talk about, like I said, the craziness of F1s, you can build a post about it that is in the language that you want to be on your page forever.
Julie Swan | 28:08
Yeah. I love that. So use the stories as a test bed, try some things out, interact a lot more with your people in polls and so on and so forth, and then take the results of that to sort of give you the plan for your main content. I love that.
Oh, that’s good. All right. So I get a lot of breeders talking to me about, I just want to hire it.
Can I just hire it out?
Elli Farmer | 28:34
Yeah. Yeah. And I’ll be honest. I’ve hired out my social media before, I hired my sister, who’s a marketer for a bigger company than mine.
And I had her come and do content for me for about three months is how long I employed her. And it was really nice having someone who is creating content. But in the same breath, I found I was spending just as much time coaching her through what I wanted created, as I would have if I just sort of done it for myself.
So if you want to hire someone, you have to really understand your content and your client before you hire that person, because marketers are great marketers. And so they’re going to influence you to hire them. But then once they get in the thick of it, and they’re creating content, they can shift who you’re selling to.
And you can end up marketing to someone who you don’t want to market to. With my sister, the hardest thing was that she was just showing a ton of cute puppies. And so then I was getting a lot of buyers who wanted a stuffed animal and not a dog. And so I’m like, okay, we have to adjust this and change this.
And in the end, I’ve gone back to creating my own content, because it’s like I can do it quicker. It’s something that I enjoy. And so we’ve just kind of kept it in house.
I do know of breeders who have successfully hired people to create content for them. But they didn’t hire a marketer, they hired a content creator, which is very different. So if you are looking for someone to run your social media, when you’re posting the job description or interviewing people look for a content creator, not a marketer. And the difference is a content creator is someone who can independently come up with concepts and create videos and social media posts that relate to that content. I was talking again to this breeder who hired their content creator, and they said they interviewed a ton of different people. Their program’s very big, they sell a lot of puppies annually, but they interviewed a lot of people and then part of the interview was the person had to create content for them and then they reviewed the content and picked the person who was making content closest to what they would have created themselves for their social media, and that’s been a beautiful relationship for them.
They’ve had this content creator for years and things have gone fantastic for them and for their social media channels and for their business, but in the same breath they couldn’t have hired that person if they didn’t understand what they needed to create prior to them, if that makes sense.
Julie Swan | 30:54
Oh, it totally does. So the main takeaway from what you need to understand before you could ever hire it out is one, who’s your ideal puppy buyer, who’s that client you’re selling to, and then what type of content. I think you can go on Google content planner or content planning for social media and you’ll get a ton of things, but the general idea is that you have certain categories you need to hit and talk about. And I think inside Breeder Copy Hub we have nine different categories that we are always writing towards. And I think if you get a structure like that and then say, okay, what do my buyers need to know, understand in order to take the next step with me or to see me as different.
Elli Farmer | 31:34
Yeah.
Julie Swan | 31:34
Is that what you’re meaning though? So the content creator is somebody who understands those content categories and then can take what you’re producing and make content to demonstrate that.
Elli Farmer | 31:46
Yeah.
Julie Swan | 31:46
Perfect.
Elli Farmer | 31:47
Exactly. Yeah.
Julie Swan | 31:48
Marketers, in my experience, are really good at reading past history and trying to recreate it and push it. But they often seem to focus on numbers, because that is the game in almost every other industry, but they don’t understand that more is not better. The right people is what really matters.
You can sell dogs with 100 people on your social media and sell nothing if you have 10,000 people who don’t really like your dogs.
Elli Farmer | 32:19
Yeah. Yeah, and I think, too, marketers can also just be a lot more broad, so they can have experience in Google and website design and social media, etc. They can have a million things they’re good at, but they’re not specific at something, so if you want to hire someone for social media, I would look for a content creator over a marketer. Sometimes marketers will have that type of person in-house, but if that person’s marketing for a million different industries, I can almost guarantee they won’t understand dog breeding the way that you do, just because dog breeding, every business is unique, but dog breeding, I feel like, has a lot of nuances to it because you are working not only with live animals, but you’re also working with a distinct group of people, too, so it’s kind of a blend of both.
Julie Swan | 33:04
And it’s also, you know, it’s a product that can really bring joy to someone’s life or complete chaos, and so, you know, it’s like if somebody hands me a book to read and I don’t really like it, it’s not a big deal. It can just go on my bookshelf or I can donate it, but not really the same thing when you get a dog. There’s just so much more weight to that.
There’s judgment. It’s all kinds of things, so finding the right match is just so paramount in order to, one, save your reputation and, two, help you sleep at night.
Elli Farmer | 33:31
Yeah, no kidding, because no one wants to be the breeder who gets the call in the middle of the night where it’s like, your marketing was so good, you sold me on this puppy, and now I can’t go anywhere, and it’s chewing up my couch in the bubble, and it’s like, oh, I’m sorry.
Julie Swan | 33:45
Yeah, exactly. It can be really stressful really quickly. So we know that you can’t really hire someone until you have your own plan hashed out and really organized, and so we get that.
Do you, I mean, you have four kids. One’s like three weeks old. Do you have any tips or techniques?
I know you get stuff done. I know nobody gets as much content out as we all wish we did, but yeah.
Elli Farmer | 34:11
Yeah, so for me, the two biggest things that I think have made the biggest difference for me is, one, I have my stuff organized into folders on my phone. I create all my content right from my iPhone. I always have.
I didn’t always have things organized, so now I have my pictures and my videos and stuff organized by topic. So for instance, I have a folder that has videos of my kids playing with the puppies. I have videos of me interacting with the puppies.
I have videos of the puppies like eating and like ASMR, like the sounds that people put in their videos and then don’t put any sound over, and then I have folders of the different litters and their pictures. So then when I need to make content, I can go to those folders and find things relatively quickly and splice them together, and create content regardless of if I have a litter on the ground or I don’t have a litter on the ground.
So being organized in that aspect is really helpful, and then the other thing I do is I do a lot of batching of content. So for instance, currently, I know this is going to go out later, so these puppies shouldn’t be here when this podcast goes live, but I have a litter of six puppies that was a little bit of a surprise because the mom wasn’t supposed to get pregnant. Austin and I took a vacation.
Dog sitter didn’t realize the dog was in heat. Our bad, we didn’t tell her, but anyways, so the two dogs got together and now we have a litter of Bernedoodle puppies that we weren’t supposed to have because I wanted a little bit longer maternity leave.
But anyways, with these puppies on the ground, yesterday, I knew I had 30 minutes to create a bunch of videos between the time when my nanny had my toddler and then my other kids were at school and then the baby I just fed, so I knew that I had a minute to just batch out a bunch of content, and so I had thought about it the night before because I knew I was going to have that window of time, and I was like, here are some videos that I can take and here are potential hooks that can go on the videos relating to the puppies and the current stage that they’re in.
And so I had a list of things that I wanted to get done. And then for that half hour, I just sat and filmed content, and so what that looked like for me is I set up my tripod and I made the puppy mush, like that is, I think that video is about three minutes long of me just assembling things together for the puppy mush. And then I moved the tripod, and then I filmed myself setting up the puppy exercise pen in our living room, putting down like the mats to protect our floor, getting their items out that they’re going to experience, got that filmed. And then I filmed myself putting the puppies into that area, and then I filmed just a bunch of other things that could all happen in that half hour relating to the puppies eating puppy mush, doing their curriculum, I filmed handling, and then a little bit of grooming on one of the puppies.
So in the end, I have give or take 30 minutes of content that I filmed, that can be broken down into several different videos. So I have the puppy mush video, I have a grooming video, a handling video, setting up the area with me. So now I just need to go through and edit them, so I have that stuff done, and it makes it much easier for the rest of the week to just kind of edit them in the pockets of time that I have. So I think you can batch content and save yourself so much time.
Julie Swan | 37:15
And to be clear, you weren’t planning these things in that 30-minute window, you knew ahead of time you were going to do this, so you said, okay, tomorrow when I get up, when I have that moment of time after the baby’s fed, I’m gonna do this with the dog, and I’m just gonna make sure I take an extra few minutes and record it. Yep. And I don’t know, like for you, probably during nursing time, which is such a great, because you can’t do anything.
Elli Farmer | 37:39
No, you’re just stuck in a chair, you’re like, okay I’m nursing a baby, and I have one hand raised, so I can, yeah.
Julie Swan | 37:45
So I know I’m always looking for those moments where it’s like, well, I’m stuck in line at the post office, what can I do, you know, and you can flip through. And when you, to clarify, you said you put your photos and videos in folders, do you mean like albums, just on the standard iPhone photos?
Elli Farmer | 38:00
Yeah, in albums.
Julie Swan | 38:00
And after you cut them in your program, you’ll put them in a new folder where they’re finished, or something along those lines.
Elli Farmer | 38:07
I keep them, so I just leave them all in the same folder. So in the end, when, let’s say, so the puppies are five weeks now, so in three weeks when I don’t have this litter of puppies here, because they’ve all gone home, if I want to continue building my Instagram, I personally don’t. When I don’t have litters on the ground, I usually let my Instagram kind of be dormant, and I’ll post maybe once a week.
Julie Swan | 38:27
Can you say that one more time, so people can hear you?
Elli Farmer | 38:29
Yeah. So on my Instagram, I’m not, I struggle with consistency, I do.
I always have with the kids and everything else, it just has never been a big priority for me, unless I have a litter on the ground that I need to sell puppies. So then during that eight-week time, it’s like, okay, this is my eight weeks of being more consistent on Instagram than I am normally. That’s when I do a lot of work.
Then once my litter has gone home, my Instagram lays dormant, and maybe I’ll post a video once a week, and show up on an occasion, but it won’t be nearly as much as when I have puppies to move and sell, and it’s been fine for us. That’s, again, probably why my Instagram is only 4,000-ish followers, is because I have never played the consistency game, but you can do that, and you’ll still sell your dogs.
Julie Swan | 39:11
Yeah. I think once you get that, there’s a window, I feel, where once you kind of get to this, I call it like a critical mass, and it’s not a lot of people. I’m thinking it’s like around 500 people that are engaged, people that are interested in your dogs.
Once you have like 500 people on your Instagram that care about you, they will show other people. They’ll interact. They’ll do what’s needed, and I agree with you.
I don’t find that I post very much when I’m not with puppies. But there’s also that irritation when people call, and they’re like, “do you have any puppies now”, and you’re like, “no, they’ll be born in two months”, and they’re like, “oh”. You kind of get that window of people, and I know that’s not every breed, but my buyers are a little bit more impulsive, I suppose.
Julie Swan | 39:59
But anyways, I agree with you. I just, I don’t think it’s always necessary, and sometimes when you have that downtime between a litter, spending time working on your website or making things easier in your facilities is probably the answer.
Elli Farmer | 40:12
Yeah. No, I would agree. I would agree, but back to your original question about the folders in the album, so I don’t ever get rid of content.
I always leave it there because in the end, for instance, when you don’t have litters, if you do want to create a post, it’s always nice to go back to old video. Or when you have a litter and they’re newborns, and there’s not, like, newborn puppies don’t do anything. Like, there’s not much to post about when they’re newborns. You can highlight past litters. So in the end, having the content there, I think, is nice because it’s a great backup, but in the end, creating new content is always a priority when you have those puppies.
Julie Swan | 40:51
Yeah, I definitely agree with you. I think it’s definitely worth it. It’s definitely useful.
I think it is not the only way to sell dogs, but I think it’s a really great way, like you did, to just kick your program off. I think it really is very useful, and it also feels intimate in a way that I think some things don’t. Getting to see you talk over, I mean, you don’t have to be on camera, right?
Like, you could be talking over your videos, but they still get to know your voice. They get to maybe know your hands, and it’s more personal.
Elli Farmer | 41:25
Yeah, and I think, again, if they get to know your voice, so if you’re not doing the trend, so you’re not just lip syncing or lip miming whatever’s on the screen, they get to know your voice because most of your clients are going to talk to you on the phone, I would imagine. And so being able to hear, like, oh, this is the same voice I hear on Instagram that I’m hearing on the phone helps build that connection. And in the end, you can do photos of yourself on your Instagram, so you have that professional photo shoot of you with your dogs, and you’re going to have 5,000 photos that are living on your phone forever. Just throw those up when you need to have a face on your Instagram.
Julie Swan | 42:00
Yeah, I think that’s so good, so good. All right, so last question. People are always like, okay, great, I can post content all day long.
How do people find me? How do you get found on Instagram.
Elli Farmer | 42:15
Yeah, so again, Instagram has all features that change and update, but the ones that are staples, you’re going to get found if you’re creating more video content, so reels always are kind of king for being found. Second to reels is carousels, so where you have the pictures, like 10 of them or so. Everyone always is like, is it better if they share or save or like or comment?
In the end, any engagement on your post is great. If people are sharing it, obviously, it’s going to be seen by more people because they’re literally sending it to another person who might not see your content. But yeah, so focusing on doing short form video content on your Instagram will help you be found. Obviously, being consistent is a big piece, so showing up consistently on your page will help Instagram know that you want to grow, and they’ll have more things to throw out to people to see, to see what sticks, and then creating controversy.
Again, you’ll get people who aren’t going to love you, and that’s part of social media. I found most of the people that send me hate mail on social media don’t have a real picture. They’re people, but they’re hiding behind a mask, and so it’s like if you’re not comfortable enough to show yourself, why would I be concerned? And so obviously, you can block them, delete their messages, whatever, or you can leave them, and sometimes people will come in and fight your battles for you.
So yeah, consistency, controversy, and then again, most people aren’t going to listen to your reels because they have their volume off, so having some type of text on your video to draw them in to want to stop and see what’s going on.
Julie Swan | 43:49
Yeah, I love that. I love it, and I think on controversy too, I know you picked up some of the big ones, but I think sometimes can’t the controversy be something more, I don’t know, playful. Like for example, people don’t like my solid livers, but some people love them, so just pointing out like should we get rid of the solids and see what happens?
Or something along those. Do you find those are still useful?
Elli Farmer | 44:10
Yeah, no, those can definitely be useful too. So for instance, in the Bernedoodle world, something that’s controversial is Merle Bernedoodles, because obviously to get the Merle, you have to get it from the Poodle lines where people are like where did it come from? So highlighting that where it’s like where did the Merle Bernedoodle come from, when Merle Poodles shouldn’t exist, right?
So you can highlight something like that that’s just a nuanced controversy, and you’ll get people commenting about like hating on the Merle Bernedoodles or loving on the Merle, like in the end, I’ve done Merle Bernedoodles, so whatever. But so yeah, highlighting controversies within your breed or even training controversies, where you can bring up things that are just silly. Like in the end, it doesn’t really matter, and it’s not going to impact the world in five years if someone uses a harness or doesn’t use a harness, right?
Like in the end, it’s like it’s fine, it doesn’t matter, but people have strong feelings about that. Or feeding raw, like if you feed your dog raw bones, or like there’s a lot of things, and you can see it. If you want to look for controversy, you can also go look at big dog accounts of your same breed and look through the comments.
I was looking at an account, they have two doodles, and they are doodle haters. Like that is a big, like it’s so interesting. And so on their account, they talk about how they got their doodles and they love their doodles, but they’ll never buy a doodle again.
They’ll just get a purebred poodle because they’ve realized all the problems with doodle breeding. And it’s really fascinating because their account, it’s a pretty big account. So if you know it, you know it.
But if you don’t, I’m not going to say it because I don’t want to bring it up. But anyway, so I go through their comments often and look for controversies within their comments about doodle breeds, because oftentimes the controversies aren’t huge, but they would make a really funny reel. So for instance, one that was on there, oh, I screenshotted it.
It’s on my phone. I’m going to look really quick because it was funny. I’m like, this one is, that’s so funny to me.
And again, maybe someone listening will be like, Elli, this is actually important. Okay. So they had a reel, what’s something that is normalized in the dog world that shouldn’t be?
Was the title. And so some of the things was not training small dogs because you can just pick them up. So like that could be a reel that you could make if you do small dogs. Not trimming dog’s nails because the pavement will grind them down, and the dog is eight and his nails are scraping the ground.
And so you can do a video of your dog running across your hardwood floor and making the sounds and being like, oh, time to trim the nails. Having a chunky dog that you say you love, but is overweight anyway. So they had like going and looking in the comment section of other people’s reels can help you find controversies that might not feel too scary to post about.
Julie Swan | 47:00
Yeah, exactly. Like the nail trimming could definitely be one. And it, like, it totally varies.
Like we have to trim the Tat Terriers that live inside the house all the time. And are like, oh, couch is much better than outside. You know, you know, my GSP is, I mean, I can’t even find them.
Their nails are so filed down, running around.
Elli Farmer | 47:16
Yeah. Our Bernies that are outside most of the time, I, I’ve never trimmed right now.
Julie Swan | 47:21
Well they don’t need it.
Elli Farmer | 47:22
No, they don’t because they’re, yeah, we, again, we live in a pretty rural area. So it’s like, they’re on the gravel, they’re in the grass, they’re on the road. Like in the end, it’s just like, there is no nail to trim.
And if I trimmed them, they would bleed.
Julie Swan | 47:36
Right.
Julie Swan | 47:38
Yeah. But those are great. Like, and you said they’re not like, they’re not scary.
Like, nobody’s going to go, I can’t believe this breeder would say that, you know, like that won’t come out of it. It’ll just be a discussion. But I think you also pull out of it a lot of what is important to your buyers.
Like if it’s something that they really feel like, what if they like, I, okay. So I do, dew claws, I remove dew claws, which is a controversy, you know, right.
I’ve seen, you know, so in the beginning I followed it because it was breed standard. You know, it was just nicer to have them on the dogs with them gone. Those did not get filed down on our dirt.
But then what I found later was that I had a lot of families that like, if the dogs had full length tails, they’re so thin, they’re so long, they’re like really painful whips that could bruise people’s legs. Well, it’s the perfect height to hit a toddler in the head. So that really makes an uncomfortable situation.
And I haven’t seen any detriment to the dogs. They’re certainly coordinated enough without tail. So for me, I realized it was quality of life.
Elli Farmer | 48:43
Yeah.
Julie Swan | 48:43
So there are people who contact me and they say, I want a long tail. And I say, well, then I can’t prioritize temperament for you. So I can’t get you a dog.
And I turn them down.
Elli Farmer | 48:55
Yeah.
Julie Swan | 48:57
But if you had found that 70% of your buyers in polls on stories are like mortified that you’ve docked their tails, then that would be really useful information.
Elli Farmer | 49:08
Yeah, exactly. So you can kind of see, again, you can test in stories and gauge the engagement and the interest of your audience and then refine how you talk about something. So when you create the post, it’s not like, oh, yeah, reverse reverse on what I just posted.
But yeah, you like I said, go look at popular dog accounts from your breed because there’s someone is pet influencing for whatever dog breed you’re selling. Go look through their comments on their most popular reels and you’ll find some funny ones that you can base a reel around that. I’ve seen accounts of dog breeders where people are like adopt, don’t shop.
Obviously, that one’s really controversial, but they put “on my way to drown these puppies so they don’t end up in a shelter” because they’re like, what do you want me to do? I already have puppies like we can adopt, don’t shop all day. But in the end, these puppies still need a home, you know, and that like that is a really stark example and was very like, oh, like you read it and it was like, oh, my gosh.
But in the same breath, it was funny because it’s like, what do people expect? You know, like we can’t just go all one way or all another. And then yeah, with the dew claws and tails on your dogs, like that could easily be a reel you could create that probably would have some virality to it, just because there’s going to be people who have feelings about the short tail or the long tail.
And in the end, you’re like, it works best for the buyer and for the dog, for this dog to have a short tail. And so far, I haven’t heard any of my dogs complain about missing three quarters of their tail.
Julie Swan | 50:37
No, they don’t. And the other thing too, is that people this is the part that people don’t understand, is if you have a dog that’s not well behaved, it doesn’t get to interact when you have guests come over. No, if you have a dog that’s miserable to be around, you’re not going to take it with you. You’re not going to take it to go get ice cream on Sunday.
You’re not going to take it camping, you’re going to leave it. And part of that is not having a dog with dew claws in my breed. Because when they jump on you, which is hard to break in my dogs, they cut your leg, they cut your hip, you know, that hurts, really knocks over little kids. And that can really suck.
And so you have all these things that they don’t even know the quality of life impact that comes from these decisions we’ve made with the breed. And you want all these things, but this makes it easier to live with. And arguably at no detriment to the dogs, people will tell you they use them.
I’ve never seen, like they don’t get worn down. So I just don’t see it getting anywhere near as much use as people say, I haven’t seen arthritis. I haven’t seen the problems they pitch.
So 10 years of doing it, I’ve seen the dogs in full life. So anyway, so, you know, I’m sure I’ll get some negative comments on this one, but what do you do? You know, I think it’s really useful.
I did, I did to try one time. I asked my buyers on a story why they bought from a breeder, and I was actually doing the research for the podcast as I was learning. But what I didn’t realize was how much my buyers could care less about adopt don’t shop.
It didn’t even situation whatsoever. They never even considered buying a dog from a rescue. They just said, this is what I want.
And the only person that was a breeder. And so I think there’s a lot of people who make it a huge deal, and I just don’t see it as much. But those questions, why did you pick me or what’s most important to you can really give you some insight on why people picked you. And then you can add that to your website copy.
You can add that back to your stories. You can add it back to your content to show that difference.
Elli Farmer | 52:34
Yeah.
Julie Swan | 52:34
I just love that you’re using stories as such an investigative tool.
Elli Farmer | 52:39
Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, that’s going to help you learn your client better too.
Cause if you can better speak their language, it’s like, well, I picked you. I was never going to adopt don’t shop.
You’re like, Hey, I don’t need to make anything about adopting and shopping because that’s my client’s not trying to decide. Whereas for us, we have a lot of people coming from California and Oregon and Washington. And so they’ll ask like what health testing you’re doing.
Like in the end, we’ve considered adopting, but we want to get a puppy because we have children and we don’t want to have the unknown history. So how are you raising your dog so that we’re not getting that unknown background. And so then we can talk about that.
And that’s something that helps again with marketing for me, because I do have people that are trying to decide, because in the end, adopting a dog is a big decision. Getting a puppy is a huge decision. And so for me, my clients do weigh the pros and cons because a lot of them are financially able to get a dog from a shelter and then pay to have it trained.
But in the same breath, they are like, is that the route I want to go? Because I also have kids. And even if the dog’s trained, like there’s a lot of things that can happen. But for you, you’re like, they’re not even looking at that.
So why would I talk about that? But in the end, you can, even if that isn’t one of your touch points, you can talk about like, you want a dog that’s birdie, but not overly birdie, because it’s still going to be your family companion. And that’s something that you do with your GSPs.
So I think, yeah, again, finding those controversies that are unique to your client through your stories, or through comments on other people’s posts, can be really helpful.
Julie Swan | 54:15
I like that use of the, looking at other accounts to really get the inspiration, because I do, you can see really what’s going on and what people are thinking. And then you have the words they’re using. I mean, it’s really useful.
I’m screenshotting stuff like that all the time. Oh, this is interesting.
Elli Farmer | 54:30
Yeah.
It’s like, hmmm okay.
Julie Swan | 54:32
And it is different too, because I noticed with my Rat Terriers, the funny thing about Rat Terriers is that most people don’t go out and seek a Rat Terrier unless they’ve owned one before. And most of them own them as a cross with some other random breed.
And they found out that when they research why they love this dog, they love the Rat Terrier traits. So now they want a full Rat Terrier. But the problem is that those people all got that first dog for free.
So you’re always like trying to explain, okay, so remember how that dog had no teeth by the time it was six, you’re not going to have that problem. Remember how you ran into this weird allergy, you’re not going to have that problem. And so it’s like, I’m constantly educating my Rat Terrier people on why buying a well bred dog will actually give you what you’re looking for, in a way that I never have to explain that with my GSPs.
Elli Farmer | 55:18
Yeah. Isn’t that funny? And in the end, that’s something if you didn’t know your client, you wouldn’t understand that. Because that means that you’ve taken the time to talk to them.
Like, so how did you find us? It’s like, well, I really liked my dog that I got from X, Y and Z off my Craigslist. And then I decided I wanted the purebred version.
And you’re like, I can tell you about that, but it’s going to cost you a little bit more money than the Craigslist puppy.
Julie Swan | 55:44
Right. Exactly. I know the Walmart parking lot special.
Yeah.
Elli Farmer | 55:48
Oh my gosh, that’s terrible.
Julie Swan | 55:50
It is.
Elli Farmer | 55:50
But also funny.
Julie Swan | 55:52
It is. But it’s, I mean, it’s cool. And they’re always good owners.
The one thing that’s nice is they will take the dog. They’re less picky on color, they’re less picky on pattern, because they really want that personality again. And my GSP people are like, but how come it doesn’t have patches on the shoulders?
And I was like, umm yeah, because I draw them when they come out and I forgot, like, I don’t.
Elli Farmer | 56:19
Well, so again, we’ve done, we’ve done purebred Bernese litters and it was fascinating. Just the difference in the buyer, like such a different buyer. Where my, the families who come for a Bernedoodle, there’s a lot more handholding, about the dogs in general, usually our conversations after the puppy goes home are more frequent for longer after they go. And we’ve done some things to kind of help our program.
Like with you, you helped me do the emails and things that go through on our HoneyBook, which has been super helpful. So that like questions about when am I vaccinating this puppy? How soon? The dog has diarrhea.
And it’s just like, what? Like, how bad’s the diarrhea? Well, it pooped a little on my carpet.
Okay. Wipe it up and add some pumpkin. And we’ll call it a day.
Is that blood? Like, you know, is this an emergency? No.
Okay. Perfect. Whereas the Bernese Mountain dogs, I didn’t hear from them again.
I got updates. Like, look at my puppy turned one and I’m like, awesome. This is really cool.
And like, no questions about when to do vaccinations, like in the end, just a completely different, completely different group of people. Neither of them are better and worse. Like I appreciate my first time puppy buyers.
Cause that’s when we got our Bernedoodle, Austin and I were first time dog owners. Like we’d grown up with dogs, but we’d never owned our own. And so, yeah, it just was, it was very fascinating to see how different it was.
And again, honing in on what is going to help you sell your specific breed. Instagram’s a great research area to look and see what’s going on. And then practicing speaking.
It also helps you with selling, because if you can talk about the problems in your dog in a way that helps people understand them, and work through them, you’re going to sell another puppy than someone who, when they’re asked a question about a crappy part about owning the dog and they’re like, well, you’ll figure it out. Like that doesn’t work either.
Julie Swan | 58:12
Yeah, it’s true. It’s true. It’s nice.
It’s also nice when you can, you know, I think a lot of people, I always think like there’s people that want things and then they don’t do it. Right. So there’s like a, there’s a missing thing between the desire and the action of the purchase or the deposit.
And I’m fascinated by like, what little lever do I need to twist to get them to pass through that roadblock that they have? So what is the threshold I have to bust through? And I think on Instagram, you can test so many of those things.
So I’m always wanting you to pitch, you know, here’s how to get a puppy, right? That’s one of the categories. Like, so some people have never bought from a breeder.
So let’s make this really easy. This is what you can expect. This is where to start.
This is what will happen next. You know? And as you explain all that, I think people feel confident.
And I’ve also seen, and this is silly, but as my price increased and I changed the demographics of buyers considerably over the years. The people who had more money, wanted more stuff done for them, but they also like, there’s a window in there where people want to spend a little bit more to get a better value, but they don’t have a ton of money, but they want to be super educated. And they also don’t want to look stupid.
Elli Farmer | 59:27
Yeah.
Julie Swan | 59:28
And I think that not looking stupid is really an underrated part of marketing. Because if you can give them all the answers, so they don’t feel stupid talking to you, you’re going to sell more dogs.
Elli Farmer | 59:37
Yeah. No, isn’t that funny? Like it is so true. Cause even when I talk to people, one of the questions I have when we, when I talk to potential families is why did you pick a Bernedoodle?
Like, why are you interested in a Bernedoodle? And if they’ve looked through our website, there’s a lot of, we have our frequently asked questions that go over things that explain why someone would or wouldn’t want a Bernedoodle. And that’s funny.
Cause a few people I’ve talked to, they’re like, I liked them because they’re cute, and then I looked through your website and I realized that the things I like about them are x y and z.
Which helps me as the breeder direct them towards a puppy they’re going to be happy with in the litter. And then it also helps me tailor my program so that I’m creating puppies that people want.
And for me that’s creating consistency in the look of our dogs because it makes it a lot easier to sell them. Like I don’t know the litters that are really crazy colors, people are like well I’m having a hard time picking, because I really like this ones looks, but I like that temperament, and it’s like oh yeah. Whereas if they’re all the same then they’re like oh I like this one perfect. That was something I saw with the Bernese, because the Bernese puppies all look exactly the same, and it was really easy for people to pick based on temperament. And I’m like if we could just do that with the doodles, we’d have it, have it right.
Julie Swan | 1:00:48
It’s always a work in progress right, it’s always something new. You’ll get them all consistent and then people be like well what about the ones that are piebald I don’t want that Irish pattern anymore, you know.
Elli Farmer | 1:01:02
Yeah exactly.
Julie Swan | 1:01:03
I agree with you.
One more question for you. You’ve been just such a wonderful wealth of knowledge thank. How long do you think is realistic for people to get traction? Say they’re posting fairly consistency, maybe three to four posts a week. How long do you think to get traction if it’s working
Elli Farmer | 1:01:22
Honestly, if the quality of your content is good, so if you’re filming stuff, and it’s hard to see the lighting’s bad, and it looks like you’re filming from prison, it’s gonna take you a long time. I’ve seen that like people film that, and it’s like where are you at, why are you in your storage room, like please go stand in front of your window, or go outside, and can we hear you. But if you’re filming quality content, and you’re consistent in it, I would say a month. I really think you can get traction within a month.
If you go on Instagram and there’s a million people who have a million different formulas for making things happen, for me if I batch my content, I post six days out of seven, do mostly reels, maybe have a carousel in there, and then show up on my stories every day, like three stories maybe. So again total time, that probably takes me about an hour a day if I include filming the content, creating the content, and then putting it up, so an hour a day, so six hours a week. If you do that for a month you’ll gain traction.
I’ve seen it in my own account. When it grows, it’s because I’m showing up consistently. I’ve seen my account grow in a couple days, but again the consistency piece is important, and then creating quality content that people are interested in enough to watch.
So those are the two things, and you can always go back and look, Instagram just added a new feature where you can see how other people’s reels are performing. So you can see which one’s in your niche specific. So mine when I go and look at this part of Instagram, it shows me which Bernedoodle Breeders reels are popping off and becoming viral.
But you can also just go to your competitor’s account, so go to another breeder who’s doing Instagram well, click on their reels tab, see which reels are getting the most traction, go ahead and copy it. And don’t feel bad about it, they copied someone else. And so you can go on you can recreate theirs. If you’re like my account’s not growing. You can also go back and look at your past stuff, so you can go on your insights see which stuff did the best for you, and just create more of that for a second and that’ll help you grow really quickly.
Julie Swan | 1:03:29
Yeah, and you said you were posting every day on stories or do you say you post them stories three times a week?
Elli Farmer | 1:03:32
Three times a day. So right now you don’t need to space it out during the day, it honestly doesn’t matter, you can post at midnight if you want.
So what I’ll do during the day, is I’ll film myself talking to the camera for one of the stories, and then the following story will just be a picture with text of what my talking video said if someone didn’t listen to it, and then my third post is usually just a reshare whatever content I created. So in the end that’s the three stories that I’m creating, and again I create them fairly quickly. Because the talking video, you can’t talk for longer than a minute on a story, so that has to be a minute or less. I like to keep them around 30 seconds, and then the next page just goes over a summary of what I said in that video, and then a share of my content that I added that day. So you can keep it simple.
Julie Swan | 1:04:25
Yeah, I think, would you agree with this, if you were in a place where you said that sounds not doable to me, I’m not streamlined enough, I can’t do this. Would you recommend three posts a week, get at least three posts a week, reshare them to your stories, try to make one or two of those reels, one a carousel, and then that will still get you results?
I think the new algorithm is better about not being as exhausted posting every day. Because I think you’re right, better quality on a on fewer would produce more for you than poor quality on multiple.
Elli Farmer | 1:05:06
Yes, yeah I would agree.
Julie Swan | 1:05:08
Cool.
Ellie thank you so much for coming on today and sharing all this awesome information about Instagram, and tips and tricks, I think so much of it is just very applicable, and very easy to use and think about.
So thank you so much for coming on.
Elli Farmer | 1:05:20
Yeah thanks for having me Julie.
