12 Days of Breeders – 1 – Kim McGuirk of NewBliss Chicago Lagotto

The 12 Days of Breeders is a series of interviews conducted with members of the Dog Breeder Society who are doing innovative, creative, and inspiring things in their dog breeding business.  In each of these interviews we cover challenges each breeder has encountered, and how they’ve overcome those challenges to find success in their breeding program.  Join me for all twelve of these interviews for inspiration, and countless actionable tips you can use to overcome (or avoid) challenges in your own dog breeding program!  You can check out all of the interviews in this series here.

Kim McGuirk & Newbliss Chicago Lagotto Romagnolo

In this first episode in our 2025 12 Day of Breeders, we talk to AKC Breeder of Merit, Kim McGuirk of Newbliss Chicago Lagotto, who built explosive business success by focusing on radical customer service and smart delegation. Kim shares the secret to her longevity: building an incredible community of owners through fun bi-annual social events, and the brilliant management strategy she uses to prevent burnout—including a puppy socialization hack using high school and college students on a shift spreadsheet! You’ll learn how Kim’s anti-snob approach to treating clients with respect attracted buyers fed up with poor communication elsewhere, and why the Lagotto Romagnolo is the ultimate purebred alternative to a Goldendoodle. If you’re ready to pivot from stress to success, this episode is mandatory listening.

Learn more about Kim and Newbliss Chicago Lagotto Romagnolos

Transcript

Julie Swan | 0:00

Welcome to 12 Days of Breeders 2025. Today we have Kim McGuirk of Newbliss, Chicago Lagotto. Kim is an AKC Breeder of Merit of Lagotto Romagnolos.

Kim, thank you so much for coming on today.

Kim McGuirk | 0:43

Good job, you got the name nailed. Thanks for having me.

Julie Swan | 0:46

It took me some practice. So tell us, what are these Lagotto Romagnolos?

They are beautiful.

Kim McGuirk | 0:54

They are the purebred equivalent of a golden doodle. In my opinion, I think they’re what everybody’s aiming for when they’re looking for a doodle, especially the ones that are going for the medium or mini-sized ones. They’re fun little happy curly dogs with a big personality, love people, and have very little health problems.

They’re a great alternative to a doodle for those who are looking for hypoallergenic dogs.

Julie Swan | 1:24

Yeah, because they do, they’re like about what, like 40 to 50 pounds?

Kim McGuirk | 1:27

Less than that, about 30 to 40.

Julie Swan | 1:30

Oh, even smaller, great. And they come in, well, they come in all the GSP colors, don’t they?

Kim McGuirk | 1:35

Yeah, they come in brown, orange, roan, white and brown, brown and white, pretty much everything but black.

Julie Swan | 1:44

Yeah, they’re just, oh, they’re so beautiful. And so they’re an Italian breed, is that right?

Kim McGuirk | 1:49

An Italian breed, they’re in the sporting group category, but they were originally water retrievers. They were retrained in the 80s to hunt truffles in Italy. And now they’re known as the truffle hunting dog.

Julie Swan | 2:03

And so tell us what, what are truffles for those who only see it in that little seasoning shaker at the store?

Kim McGuirk | 2:09

Sure, they’re not chocolate. They’re mushrooms that are grown under trees, and the dogs will dig for them and search them out. And they’re very valuable.

So a lot of people use the dogs as part of their business, finding truffles.

Julie Swan | 2:26

Which is fantastic, because they are kind of a hot commodity these days, the truffles. Yeah. So I mean, the first time you contacted me and you said your breed, I was like, a what?

I remember running over to my computer and like typing it in, trying to spell it right, trying to figure out, and I was like, holy cow, these are beautiful. And so they really are such a nice coat texture. And it’s consistent right across the breed, it’s very much like a poodle in that sense, right?

Kim McGuirk | 2:52

Beautiful thing about them is because they’re purebred, you get that consistency, both with the type and the coat and the demeanor. Ideally, if you’re breeding right, the temperament should be consistent. So yeah, that’s what I like about them, because I was originally drawn to doodles too.

They’re obviously very cute. But when I found out there was a purebred alternative, I was obsessed, kind of like you, I kind of went to my computer and started doing a lot of research because I like, I have to have one of these.

Julie Swan | 3:22

Right.

And where did you first learn about them?

Kim McGuirk | 3:25

My husband and I were actually down in the city in Chicago, and we’re on a little staycation, we ran into somebody who was walking his dog, and it was just the most effusive, friendly, I mean, we’ve run into friendly dogs before, but this dog acted like it knew me its entire life. And when you get one that’s bred right, with the right temperament, that’s what they should be like.

And of course, they had it groomed perfect too. So it was adorable. It looked like a little teddy bear.

And yeah, so I put the name of the breed in my phone, because I knew I wouldn’t remember it. And a couple years went by, and we had had two dogs at the time. So once our dogs had passed on, I was like, I got to find out about this dog and figure out where I can get one.

And, you know, went down the rabbit hole, realized that they were pretty hard to find at that point in time. That was 2019. And just weren’t a lot of them around.

The breed has only been in the country since around 1998.

Julie Swan | 4:20

They’re really pretty new here. Do you know how long they’ve been around in Italy?

Kim McGuirk | 4:26

Well, centuries. They’re actually an ancient dog that poodles and labs and a lot of the other breeds that you see nowadays actually descended from this breed. Yet they almost went extinct.

In the ’80s, there was very few of these dogs left. And there were a few old Italian guys, Lagotto enthusiasts, that sort of reincarnated the breed and brought some life back into it and had it recognized by FCI and EMCI. And eventually, in 2015, AKC recognized the breed.

So yeah, it was kind of a cool story. And part of the allure of wanting to get involved in the breed is something so rare and special and wanting to preserve that.

Julie Swan | 5:07

Yeah, absolutely. Oh, they’re just amazing. Every time you send me pictures or show me anything or tell me stories, I mean, they’re just the cutest things.

I love them. So I know I told Bill, we’re just getting rid of the GSPs. We’re going to get those.

It’s good. Okay, but so you got one, or you were looking to get one, but then where did you get the bug for breeding?

Kim McGuirk | 5:30

Well, when I realized how cool they were, I thought I wanted to show them. And in order to get a show dog, you have to have breeding rights, etc. And as I went down this journey and trying to find a breeder to work with me, I had a hard time.

They were very gatekeeping the breed a lot. Which I understand, a lot of them have great intentions and want to do best by the breed. And so they’re really careful.

And yeah. And so when I found somebody to work with, and I got my first dog, it just sort of hit me that, okay, once I start going down the showing road, and I get really involved in the breed, of course, you want to improve the breed, you want to make it better, you want to be more involved. And the natural course in doing that is breeding.

Plus, my kids were leaving home at the time. And I was a little bit bored and looking for kind of a thing. And this turned out to be my thing.

I absolutely love it. I can’t imagine doing anything else. And I’m just kind of happy that I sort of stumbled upon it.

It wasn’t like a long childhood dream to be a dog breeder. It sort of just happened. And I’m so grateful that it did.

Julie Swan | 6:43

Yeah, absolutely. Well, you kind of have the entrepreneurial bug anyway, right? Like, that’s just, that’s you and your husband, right?

Kim McGuirk | 6:49

Right. We’ve had a lot of businesses, and it kind of fit with everything I wanted to do.

Julie Swan | 6:56

Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. Okay. So you’re in what year of breeding?

Kim McGuirk | 7:04

Fifth.

Julie Swan | 7:04

Your fifth year of breeding. Yeah.

Because you’ve just had so much success in your breeding program really fast.

Kim McGuirk | 7:11

It’s done really well. And I think I’ve been lucky. I got involved with a few really good mentors early on.

And I don’t think I would be where I am now without their help because I didn’t know anything about dog breeding. I didn’t know anything about showing, anything about a lot of things. So that was really key is finding good people to help with the learning process.

Julie Swan | 7:34

Yeah, absolutely. Was there any advice from them, or anything that stuck in your mind, that really helped you move forward?

Kim McGuirk | 7:43

One of my mentors was very, very committed and by the book about health testing. So she taught me from day one, this is what you need to do. And I made mistakes early on, and she sort of straightened me out and said, “no, this is, this is going forward.

This is how you need to do it.” And so I think just having people that will guide you in the right direction and don’t be afraid to make mistakes, because there’s always bumps along the road, but yeah.

Julie Swan | 8:14

Yeah. I do find that a lot of breeders, we get nervous, because we’re bringing life into the world. And so we hesitate to have the first litter. And it’s been my experience, but was it your experience too, that it was really helpful having a couple of litters? Because you learn things you didn’t even know you needed to learn.

Kim McGuirk | 8:31

Most definitely. I read all the books. Myra Savant-Harris is a great resource for whelping information.

I watched tons of videos, but there’s nothing like hands-on doing it. You know, once you have a litter under your belt, it’s like, “Oh, okay. These are the things I know I don’t know and I need to go do more research on. And these things I feel more comfortable with than I thought I would” et cetera. So yeah, there’s nothing like hands-on experience.

Julie Swan | 8:53

I always feel like, I know it’s terrible to say, but I always feel like the first four litters are just practice. Like you kind of don’t really know what you’re doing until those, but then after that, it’s like, “Oh, okay. I kind of know what I’m doing now, it’s easier.

So don’t be afraid to start that first one for all those breeders listening.

So I love it. Okay. But you did some other things that were really good.

You got some great breeding dogs to start.

Kim McGuirk | 9:21

I did. I got really lucky I think. My first couple of dogs were great foundation dogs, and I got hooked up with a great breeder in Europe who breeds a lot of very high quality dogs.

And so I was lucky to get involved with him from the get-go, and that kind of put me on a great path. My dogs were easy to champion. So I was able to get titles on them right away.

And that just lends credibility to your program. If you can do it for those that are in purebred dogs, I think it does help. Showing isn’t the be all end all, but like I said, it can lend an air of credibility, the fact that you’re breeding to the standard is important.

And it’s important to explain to pet people why it matters, even though they’re not showing their dog, it’s still important that the dog is structurally and temperamentally correct.

Julie Swan | 10:11

And you have fun there too. I think like for you, it has some intrinsic value, right?

Kim McGuirk | 10:17

Its certainly been fun. Yeah. I love the competitive side of it.

That’s really fun. The dog shows are hit and miss, parts of it I hate, but I think it’s important for my program to be involved in that.

Julie Swan | 10:35

I think it’s nice. It also gets word out about your breed. Because I think there’s just not enough people who know what they are.

Kim McGuirk | 10:42

Yeah, absolutely. And we do a lot of things to try to increase knowledge about the breed. I’ve put on a few meet the breed events, and then we also have community events where people who have Lagotti will come and have a get together, have a little social hour with their dogs.

And so when people are looking at the breed, and they want to explore them, and see what they’re all about, I invite them to those events so that they can see a whole bunch of Lagotti in one spot, and get a feel for talking to the owners and finding out what they’re all about and that kind of thing.

Julie Swan | 11:19

Tell us a little bit more about these events you’re putting together. Because I know people don’t really know what a Lagotto is, right? So you’re kind of boosting, well, you have people who are probably interested in them, but haven’t met one.

And, and those are probably new buyers that are coming to you. Is that common with your breed?

Kim McGuirk | 11:36

Yes. Most people haven’t ever met one.

And so I’d say 70% of the people that contact me haven’t actually met one in person. So yeah, it’s kind of wild. And a lot of people want to put deposits down before they even meet them.

So I really encourage everybody to come for a visit. And I’ve had people take me up on that. People have come from the East Coast just to meet the dogs before they decide to put a deposit down.

And then sometimes if I have a buyer in another state where this buyer lives, I’ll connect the two of them so they can meet up so they can see what one is about. Because I don’t want somebody to get a dog from me if they haven’t even met one. They need to meet one to be sure.

Julie Swan | 12:14

You said you get a lot of Italian families. They’re kind of like, “this is our heritage.” Is that like a thing?

Kim McGuirk | 12:22

When people find out that there’s such a dog that ticks all their boxes, and happens to be Italian. People love that. Yeah.

Julie Swan | 12:29

I think it’s great. Okay. But I sidetracked.

So with these events, you host them, about how frequently do you host them?

Kim McGuirk | 12:36

So we’ve done meet the breeds at dog shows, where the dog shows are geared more toward the general public versus just dog show people. And they’re a great way to just spotlight the breed, and other breeds will be there too. So these will be meet the breed events where they’ll have multiple different breeds.

And everybody’s always like, what is this? Is this a doodle? And they’re always excited to find out that it’s some new type of dog they’ve never heard about.

The other thing that we’ve done, is one where I kind of created it, and it is formed from a Facebook group I started, which is basically just Lagotto of Chicago. And it’s not just for my clients. It’s for anybody who has a Lagotto, or is interested in the breed, and wants to learn more about it.

It’s a lot of sharing of rumors and questions about these dogs in particular, what they’re like compared to other dogs, people will ask each other, other owners. So I started it with that group. A lot of the people that were on that group said, it’d be great to meet other people with these dogs.

It’s fun. Because they’re something special, and everybody’s really proud of their dogs, and excited that they have a unique, cool dog. So they kind of want to meet other ones.

So I organized my first one, just thinking, well, let’s get a few of my clients together and some of the siblings of litter mates and stuff that wanted to connect. And then it kind of grew from there. People that were in this group that maybe didn’t get a dog from me, but got a dog from somewhere else.

They also wanted to interact with other Lagotto owners. So it’s grown quite a bit. I think the last one we had, we had 20 dogs at, and multiple owners, the families of these dogs, and we just hang out and talk about Lagotti all day.

It’s really fun. And then prospects that have been kind of dangling the idea around of getting one of these dogs, or they want to look at them. I always invite them to come to that.

We do it twice a year. And for anyone that’s coming up, I say, wait and come to this. You’ll get to see a whole bunch in one place, and compare all the different colors and temperaments and sizes and all that.

Not that there’s a huge variety, but it’s fun to see all the differences.

Julie Swan | 14:37

That’s fun. I think it’s neat. Because it was so fun for me to see, roan, but in a poodle coat, you just don’t see that very often. Yeah.

I love it. I think it’s so cool. So this is pretty good.

Oh man. What a great idea to boost all that. Do you find the group?

I know people are real hit or miss on these Facebook groups. Do you find it’s been pretty beneficial for you? Anything that you’ve done to kind of keep it positive, instead of like the crazy Facebook groups that they can become?

Kim McGuirk | 15:09

Well, I’ve been lucky. I have the few questions at the beginning, where I asked people what their intentions are, and why they want to join the group. And I think that’s weeded out a lot of the weird people and scammers and blah, blah, blah, stuff like that.

So it’s really a pretty solid group of people that are just general Lagotto enthusiasts, or want to learn more about the breed. I haven’t had a lot of drama on it. And it’s a site where people can just post pictures of their cute dog, like say, “Hey, great dog, so and so had a great day at obedience class. And I want to brag about him.”

And they’ll put a picture up or something. So it’s just kind of fun.

Julie Swan | 15:44

That’s really neat. Do you see a boost in deposits and stuff after these two events, like after people meet them?

Kim McGuirk | 15:51

I’ve gotten a few deposits here and there, but I don’t really do it as much for a boosting sales kind of thing. I do it more to create a community. I just think for this breed especially, it’s kind of special to have everybody get to know each other.

Because there’s so few of them around, if somebody finds out there, there’s a Lagotto in their neighborhood, they get so excited. It’s like, “Oh my God, there’s another one.”

And so it’s more to that.  And honestly, our waitlist is pretty long, so I haven’t had to do it as kind of a sales ploy, but I think it can help just boost awareness, but it’s just more a nice thing for the owners of the dogs.

Julie Swan | 16:33

I think it’s a great move, especially given how people don’t really know anything about the breed so they can meet them. And then I love the idea of having that with your shows, where they can see a variety of breeds as well. That’s probably easy to get more people.

Is there a name? I’m not familiar with those.

I only really think of like AKC shows, which is all like show people, but these are something else.

Kim McGuirk | 16:55

My, my group is something else. But the event that I did, the official meet the breed, it’s an AKC sponsored event and they do it at dog shows, not all dog shows, but usually the bigger ones. And usually the ones that are more marketed toward the general public, they have things for kids. They have like little kids activities where kids can go around and pretend like they’re showing dogs.

And they’ve been at those kinds of events. I know New York has one, Chicago did one, they’re not at every show, but they’re at a lot of the highly marketed shows, where there’s a lot of families going just to learn about dogs, and see tricks and things like that.

Julie Swan | 17:36

Yeah. Oh, that’s really cool. I didn’t know they have those.

So, you know, me, I’m like show dog idiot, so it’s okay. And so, oh, I love it. All right.

Well, this is so good, but okay. So you were also telling me the other day, how, every time I’m working with you, I feel like your business has picked up more and more and more and you’re like, “well, Julie, my wait list is getting kind of long” and I’m like, “oh darn, must be so hard.” You’ve just been very successful, but you’ve done a couple of things differently.

Maybe not just within your breed, but they’re honestly just breeder best practices. Like, can you tell us a little bit about what you’ve done differently with your customers that’s really made an impact?

Kim McGuirk | 18:20

Honestly, with our breed, I found when we were shopping for a Lagotto, I had a lot of negative experiences with breeders, not calling me back, or talking down to me, acting very protective of the breed, as if I was in it for the wrong reasons, that kind of thing. And so I knew from my own experience, what people were getting when they were reaching out to breeders. And I just wanted to do it different.

I’m mostly a pet person. I’ve had pets, dogs my whole life. And so I just tried to treat people the way I want to be treated.

When I’m looking for a dog, I want to be treated respectfully, and if I ask a stupid question, I don’t want somebody to jump down my throat and make me feel bad about it. So I think just getting back to people fast, answering their questions, not being condescending and being a professional, being able to be a resource for the breed and letting people know that I’ll be that resource after the sale too.

It’s not a transaction. It’s not something where, here’s your dog off you go, see you later and have a nice life. They know that I’ll be there for them in the follow-up.

And so I think that’s what set me apart. In our breed, because they’re rare and sought after and kind of expensive, it tends to attract preservation breeders, which I think have really good intentions, but are also a little bit snobby sometimes. And backyard breeders who are just in it for a quick buck, because they see an opportunity. So trying to be that person in between, where I’m knowledgeable and doing things correctly, but I’m also respectful to people, and I want to help them find out if this is the right dog for them.

Some people it’s not the right dog for. So you want to be a resource and guide them in the right direction, even if it’s not your breed and not your program.

Julie Swan | 20:17

Yeah, exactly. What were some of the things those breeders would say to you? Because nothing about you screams like this is a train wreck looking to buy a dog.

I can’t imagine people would be harsh with you.

Kim McGuirk | 20:27

Well, because I went into it a little bit naive, I went into it saying I wanted a dog for showing and breeding, people would be like, “oh, you have bad intentions, you’re going to harm the breed.” They basically told me I wasn’t going to do things right. And I wasn’t going to do things ethically.

And it did light a little bit of a fire in me. I was like, “oh, no, I’ll do things right and I’ll show you.” And so I probably went a little bit overboard in the other direction trying to make a point that I have good intentions, and I want to do the best for the breed and I want to be a good breeder.

So in a way, those people that were a little harsh on me, kind of shaped me into what I am now, because it helped me become more passionate and forced me to do things right, and to find mentors would guide me in the right direction to do things correctly.

Julie Swan | 21:23

Yeah, that makes sense. I never really thought about it as that difference between a preservation breeder, that your breed would attract that and the backyard breeder. It makes complete sense, given that it is a more expensive breed.

I can see just being a middle ground, and being easy to work, with has got to just pay off really well. And I know you’ve done the work, your dogs are fantastic. There’s no question about it.

Yeah, that’s good.

Are you constantly on the phone with people, or how have you found that balance?

Kim McGuirk | 22:04

Well, on my application, you’ve helped me a ton. Your whole process of HoneyBook, I found you early on, and that has streamlined my life and made things a lot easier. But in my application, I do put on there, how do you want to be contacted?

So, yeah, I do feel like I’m on the phone. If you ask my husband, he’ll say yes, you’re on the phone all the time. And that’s why I try to do things, if at all I can get people on the phone to talk to them.

I feel like that gives me the best picture of what they’re all about, their intentions and what they’re looking for in a dog and everything. So, yeah, it does it does take a lot of time, but it’s important to weed people out, and make sure that you’re getting the right buyers for your dogs. But yeah, it’s a labor of love.

But HoneyBook has helped a ton. That’s kind of streamlined my process, where once they are on our waitlist and getting a puppy from us. I don’t know if you want to go into this right now, but it’s helped me a ton with not having to repeat myself.

I have my standard emails I send out while the puppies are being raised, and during the time when they’re waiting for their puppy, they can get prepared. And I was doing all those things manually, like people will call with a question and I’d be like, OK, and I’d be on the phone answering the questions. And I learned through you and watching your videos and your podcasts how to make my life easier.

And actually everybody appreciates it. I don’t think people feel that they’re being sent a form email. I think they still feel like it’s very personalized because of the way it’s done.

Julie Swan | 23:35

Well, yeah, you’ve written it right to be that way. So that’s nice. I just find the premade emails like I don’t know.

You know how it is when you’re trying to give somebody an answer so fast, in like three sentences on text message, and you’re forgetting verbs or special important words, or I find myself doing it all the time and I’m like, gosh, if I just sat down one time and wrote this and it was in a template. And that’s what HoneyBook has helped me do. Like you said, it I think it takes a lot of stress off of us, because I can give you like “here’s all the 70 things to think about dog food” here, just read it.

Kim McGuirk | 24:10

You know, it does. And just in talking to people, when you have that initial conversation, they always ask the same questions. They say the same thing.

So you do start to recognize patterns. You’re like, “OK, I think I can anticipate what they’re going to ask” and I’ll answer before they even ask it. So that’s worked out fabulously.

Julie Swan | 24:26

Yeah, that’s really, really good. I’m glad HoneyBook worked out so good. I felt like your HoneyBook came together really nice.

Every time I logged in, I’m like, wow, she’s making a ton of money, this is so good. I’m always like always happy. It makes me happy.

So that’s really good. And then you have, well, you’ve done a lot of work. So like looking at new breeders, you picked up quickly.

I feel like your business got to the heyday phase, I would call it fast, like probably within a year and a half, two years, would you say?

Kim McGuirk | 25:02

Yeah, it really did, faster than I anticipated. And some of my counterparts, I feel like maybe are still struggling, and I sometimes will help give them referrals and things like that, because their program isn’t growing as fast. And I think some of the things that have helped that happen, are just things that I consider no brainers, like the website, having a Google page, things like that, having people be able to find you is really key.

But that and I think just being considerate to people, and calling them back, and communicating with them. Like I said, a lot of the breeders, and I hate to just lump everybody together, but a lot of the really good breeders I respect, they’re not great at communication. Sometimes if they don’t have a litter on the ground, and they don’t need deposits, they just don’t respond to people.

And I get that feedback from my clients who said, well, I’ve reached out to 10 breeders and nobody’s called me back. So it kind of makes my job easy because I’m like, okay, well, I’ll be happy to work with you.

Julie Swan | 26:01

Yeah, I think sometimes that’s why people, even though my price is higher for my breed, I think people will buy a dog for me simply because I’ve made it so easy. Digital contract, just sign, pay here, and then you’re on the list, I’ll take care of you. I think like you’ve really capitalized on that, which is so nice.

And your website was really put together nice. It’s a beautiful website. And you did a nice job with the branding package and everything you have.

Kim McGuirk | 26:27

That too. And I think what helped me a ton is the person who handles my website is a dog breeder. And so she’s not only super smart, but she gets it.

Like when I send her updates on my dogs, my health testing and whatever, she just knows what I’m talking about, and goes in and doesn’t ask me silly questions. Like I had another guy that was initially working on my website, and he wasn’t a breeder, he didn’t understand any of this stuff. And I felt like I spent so much time teaching him, I could have just learned how to figure out how to do a website myself.

It would have been easier than trying to teach him what he needed to know. So she’s been key. Yeah, I think things have lined up really well.

I got lucky with a lot of good people in my path that have helped me.

Julie Swan | 27:07

I think you knew what you wanted, which was really handy, you knew to need it. I mean, business wasn’t new to you, which is nice. And you knew the opportunities, which is so good, but you really capitalized on it.

I know it’s really hard for some breeders to make the decision to outsource some things. And especially when you’re like, “but I could do it myself.” You know, I’ve had that conversation with myself many times.

But Julie, why would you pay for that? You could do it yourself. Like cleaning my bathrooms, until it hadn’t got done for like 16 weeks. And I was like, hey, I’m hiring a cleaning lady.

You know, those things. What thought process goes in your head for the things that you’re going to do, the things you hire out, because you hire out a little bit of help too.

Kim McGuirk | 27:49

I have my person that helps me with their websites and my ads, things like that. I have you that helps me with my HoneyBook. And again, I think it’s important.

It’s a business. You know, yes, I love the dogs. But you have to treat it like a business and go, okay, what am I good at?

And what am I not good at? What are my strengths? And let’s capitalize on the strengths and let other people handle the things that aren’t, you know, aren’t your strengths.

And then as far as the puppy care too, I have a whole team of kids that work for me, high schoolers and college kids. And that’s been super helpful, because if I were doing everything myself, as far as the cleaning, especially, I think I would get burned out. And I might not even want to do this.

And socialize the puppies because every day they see a new face. I have a calendar and I have the kids sign up during the time I have a litter, and they sign up for shifts, and I have somebody come in the morning and somebody come in the afternoon. And so the puppies are getting new faces, boys, girls, you know, a variety of people.

I think that’s great for the dogs, they’re learning a little bit about animal husbandry. So it’s a win-win.

Julie Swan | 28:56

Talk me through this before you go on to the next thing. That’s such a brilliant idea.

How do you do this scheduling where they sign up? Like what, where do you find these people and what does that look like?

Kim McGuirk | 29:10

You say that because you know my technical skills are bad and my computer skills are bad. So actually a friend from Pickleball is she’s an Excel, what is it called? Like a master or something.

I don’t know. She has some degree in Excel stuff. So I asked her to create a spreadsheet for me and the kids all have access to it.

And it’s a pretty basic spreadsheet. I probably, if I ever put my mind to it, I could probably figure out how to do it myself. But again, it’s one of those things, like, I don’t know how to do this.

I’m just going to find somebody to do it for me. So I found her to do it for me. And yeah.

And of course the kids all know how to use Google and spreadsheets and stuff. So they just go in and they sign up for the shifts they want. And I don’t have to do anything but look at it and see who’s coming today.

And then I tally up the hours. It tallies up the hours for the end of the week. And I pay them once a week and yeah, no, it’s just been handy again, Kim McGuirk | (0:00 – 0:23)

it’s like that thing where I don’t know how to do this, but I want it done. I think a schedule would be great. I tried to do a few litters without a schedule, and I’m just constantly texting these kids going, can you come today?

Can you come today? And so now we have a group chat. I also have started a group chat, you know, when things aren’t done the way I like them to be done, I’ll be like, “okay, next time you guys clean the pens, you need to do it this way.”

And I’ll give them specific instructions.

Julie Swan | 30:23

It kind of takes the pressure off because you’re not pinpointing one person, but then there’s also peer pressure because everyone saw it. Oh, that’s brutal, but so good.

Kim McGuirk | 30:33

It’s really effective. I’m learning along the way, like, oh, this works. Okay.

Julie Swan | 30:38

I love the idea of having more than one person, just like you said, for the socialization, but I mean, even just from a standpoint of somebody can always cover that. How do you teach them? Do you just walk them through the first time they do it?

Or how do you do that part?

Kim McGuirk | 30:54

Yeah. I just walk them through the first time. I basically am down there doing everything with them side by side, like showing them how. I use a brilliant pad, which is a little pee pad conveyor belt, teach them how to insert the paper and how to clean the blankets and clean the pen.

And what chemicals I like to be used and how to run the washing machine. And even the backyard, because we have turf in the backyard, they come and clean the backyard of the big dog stuff. And we go through the first session is just a training session.

And then continuing education as they make mistakes, and then I kind of correct them in the group chat. It works out really good. And it, you know, it’s not rocket science, it’s cleaning up poop.

So most of them are pretty quick at figuring everything out. But I have a few standouts, of course, some of them I’ve even gotten to the point where they’ll do my tiktoks for me and like do some content. Which has been great because kids are better at that than I am.

Julie Swan | 31:51

I know, my kids are always like, you don’t know how to do that mom. I’m not even old enough to have an excuse.

Kim McGuirk | 31:59

Yeah, absolutely.

Julie Swan | 32:00

That’s so good. Oh, that’s so brilliant. I had no idea you had it down like that.

That’s so cool. And then where do you find people?

Kim McGuirk | 32:08

Some of them are friends kids, I posted on my personal Facebook page and said that I’m looking for some assistance. And some of my son’s friends parents, who had other kids that were younger were like, “Hey, my daughter would love to do this.” And then I also posted on NextDoor.

That was the app NextDoor and got a few good people through there. And then my kids friends. So it’s kind of been a mishmash of people, and then they’ll tell friends like, “Oh, I’ve got this cool job where I go and play with puppies.”

Julie Swan | 32:41

Yeah. And I like it too. It has like that small town feel where, if you screw up, like my mom’s going to find out, you know, I like, it works.

Right. Like, I would hate to say it, but it’s helpful. Yeah.

Kim McGuirk | 32:53

Yeah. One of the moms of one of the girls actually came and she wanted to do a few shifts too. I’m like, sure.

We’ll take grownups, we’ll take kids.

Julie Swan | 33:00

We’ll take anybody. And then do you just have like a set amount you pay?

Kim McGuirk | 33:04

Yes, I just have a set amount. And I pay them pretty well, because I want them to come back. And initially they all think it’s going to be fun and games.

They’re like cute puppies. This is amazing. Best job ever.

And then they hit week five and they’re like, “Oh, what did I get myself into?” So I want it to be worthwhile for them. And because they’re small shifts, they’re usually two hour shifts, I want it to make sense for them to drive here.

Julie Swan | 33:29

That makes sense. And so you’re paying, would you say like twice minimum wage or like one and a half?

Kim McGuirk | 33:40

One and a half times.

It’s still a drop in the bucket in the big scheme of things. By the time the litter goes home, I added how much it is.  It’s well worth it.

Julie Swan | 33:58

How much does it save you in time?

Kim McGuirk | 34:00

Oh, tons. Like I can go play pickleball. I have the freedom of running out and being able to do errands and stuff.

It saves me a ton of time. Because like I said, it’s usually two hours in the morning they come for. And probably an hour in the afternoon because they usually don’t have as much stuff. And I’ll fill up time.

Like if they don’t have enough puppy chores, I’ll have them wash one of my big dogs or you know, do some other random stuff.

Julie Swan | 34:24

Just to make it worth it, so they’re getting the pay and all that. I like that. That’s really, really good.

What a great idea.

Kim McGuirk | 34:28

Yeah.

Julie Swan | 34:30

This is so good.

But then the other stuff too, because you hire it out.  How do you run the numbers in your head for hiring out other things like software and your website?

Kim McGuirk | 34:45

I guess I figure the cost to run your website and have somebody update it and HoneyBook and all that. Any business has expenses, and that’s just part of the deal. My husband keeps asking me when we’re going to make money, when are we going to make money?

We are making money. You’re just not seeing it.

I just think those things are, you can nickel and dime, but again, my breed, they’re expensive dogs. So there’s definitely enough money to do that stuff. And if life easier, and makes it a business that makes sense for me to run, then I’m going to invest in that.

Julie Swan | 35:26

Yeah. Well, I think it also, like you said, prevents burnout. So there is a really key piece in there.

I see it all the time. Moms, we have a tendency to just work and then never take a break.

Then we become a little annoying sometimes. At least I do. I don’t know.

You’re probably nice all the time, but no, I’m just mean sometimes. Yeah.

Kim McGuirk | 35:53

And I think I appreciate my puppies more. I have more time to spend quality time with them. Because I’m not irritated that I’m having to clean their pens.

And we crate train our puppies. And so my helpers are crate training them usually while I’m out of the house. I don’t even have to hear them scream.

It’s like a win-win. It’s amazing actually.

Julie Swan | 36:18

I think it’s so good. Yeah.

And it is nice when you distribute the load, I think it just makes so much sense. And then do you guys get to take trips?

Kim McGuirk | 36:23

I almost inevitably after a litter goes home, I book a trip, whether it’s a small one or a big one, it’s like the reward at the end of the litter. But inevitably what will happen is one of my girls will go into heat while I’m out of town. It’s probably what’s going to happen next week when I go.

But yeah, no, it’s nice. Gotta get away to appreciate it when you come back.

Julie Swan | 36:49

I think so. So your husband just doesn’t know that that’s where the puppy money is going to all these amazing trips.

Kim McGuirk | 36:49

Exactly. The amazing trips, the yard, all the little extras around the house.

Julie Swan | 36:59

It’s definitely good. Would you know about how long it took you to be in profit in your business after your initial investment?

Kim McGuirk | 37:07

It was probably two years, only because I was doing the showing end of things and I hired a handler. So if I would have been an owner handler and done it myself, but even that can get expensive. If I wasn’t showing my dogs.

Yeah. I would have been profitable probably within six months to a year after the initial investment of my dogs. Because there’s definitely money available in this business. But because we went down the showing road, and it adds up really fast, it’s taken a little bit longer, but definitely now we’re making money.

He’s just teasing me.

Julie Swan | 37:41

Yeah. I think you’re in like this. Would you say about two litters kind of reset everything?

Kim McGuirk | 37:48

Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Swan | 37:49

That’s usually where it should be.

I think when you have more expensive breeding dogs, because your breed is expensive. So then breeding dogs become more expensive. I think that’s pretty normal.

The second litter is usually a recoup funds, which is awesome.  So I love that.

I love that. Because I think it’s all so weird. I know, like I’ve been hiring out more things the last few years and I’m like, it’s so nice.

Yeah, let’s do that. I’ll pay you to do that. My stepson moved in with us at the beginning of the year, and oh my gosh, he’s huge.

He’s like six foot three. Poor kid has to put his head down in my kennels because they only have a six foot roof, but he’s the best pressure washer in the world. So it’s just been so nice.

Yeah. Oh man. Oh, and then didn’t you get some dogs imported?

Kim McGuirk | 38:40

Yeah. So several of my dogs have been imported.

Julie Swan | 38:43

Tell us how, because it’s such a scary thing for a lot of people. Was it hard?

Kim McGuirk | 38:52

Oh, it isn’t hard at all. It’s gotten a little bit more complicated in the last year because the U S changed their import policies. And now they require the dogs to be six months old to come into the country. They used to be able to come at a younger age.

I can’t remember what the exact age was. Maybe it was 12 weeks, 16 weeks. So now that’s a little bump in the road, but in general, no, like I said, I met up with this good friend, mentor, partner, whatever, pretty early on when I started in the dogs

Nash, one of my first dogs came from him, and he’s been great. He has a transport company that does this all the time. And so there’s really not that much to it.

They handle all of the paperwork and sometimes they’ll even deliver them to my house. Sometimes I pick them up at the airport. But no, it’s not as scary as people would think, especially if you hire it out, again, I hire everything out. So everything gets hired out.

But yeah, no, it wasn’t a big deal. And I think when you’re looking outside your own backyard, you get more options as far as types and different pedigrees of dogs that you wouldn’t be able to get if you just stayed close to home. So it’s been great.

And we actually also just exported our first dog to Mexico.

Julie Swan | 40:10

And tell me how did that go?

Kim McGuirk | 40:12

Yeah, it was easy.

Actually that went really, really good. So my husband and I have Mexican residency and we love the country. And it was kind of on my bucket list from the time I started in this breed to have some dogs go to Mexico.

And I just found out recently, there was only one registered Lagotto in the whole country until mine got there. That was huge. And this dog is going to be a show dog.

He wants to show him in Mexico and here in the U.S. and get his AKC championship. So that was huge for us. Really, really proud about that.

That ours is going to be the first show dog in Mexico. The guy I’m working with, he’s great. Him and his wife, they have Frenchies and that was their first breed, but he’s very excited about getting into this breed, and being the first breeder down there.

So yeah.

Julie Swan | 41:08

Wow. That’s so exciting. Congratulations.

Wow, man. I know where I live, Mexico looks just like my backyard, but when you go down a little further, it’s just gorgeous down there. I mean, it’s just absolutely beautiful.

Plus all the coasts, there’s so much coast in Mexico. People never think about it.

Kim McGuirk | 41:28

Absolutely.

Julie Swan | 41:28

Oh, that’s so fun for you though. The second dog in the country. Do they use AKC down there or do they have their own? Do you know?

Kim McGuirk | 41:34

It’s FCI. Yeah. That’s all over the world.

Yeah. Actually our dogs that we get from Europe are part of FCI too. So I am a little bit familiar with it, but still a lot to learn.

Julie Swan | 41:48

Oh, nice. Do you think that importing, I know it costs more money, obviously there’s time invested and all the other things you’ve got to do with transport. Did you find that was a positive impact for you on your breeding program to go that route?

Kim McGuirk | 42:04

Positive impact for me in that I got better dogs than I would have gotten if I were getting them from here, because the breeders that I would have wanted to get dogs from probably wouldn’t have sold me a dog. They’re very picky with who they place breeding dogs with. So I had more options.

I think as far as from my business point of view with pet people, pet people, they’re not really looking for champion dogs or dogs with fancy pedigrees. They just want a solid dog. So I don’t know if it’s helped me on the business side of things, but it’s helped me as far as the quality of my breeding stock.

It’s kind of with more diversity and to be able to have more options. So, yeah, it’s definitely been helpful, but maybe not in the way you would think. Like customers haven’t come in and say, “Oh, you have imported dogs from Europe. So I’m going to get a dog from you”, they don’t really care.

Julie Swan | 42:54

Yeah. That’s kind of the same with German Shorthairs. Yeah, that makes sense.

Well, that’s good. Okay. So you told us your breeding program is in your basement, which is awesome.

Do you have a walkout basement? Or how is your basement set up?

Kim McGuirk | 43:12

I wish. No, it’s just a three level house. The puppies are down in the basement.

We have a small whelping box area. And then over to the side, we had to actually, my husband’s Irish and he had an Irish bar in there and the Irish bar had to go. Irish bar is gone.

And now we have a big pen area where they transition when they’re three weeks old. And then we have another section of the basement that has the crates for crate training. And we have another section of the basement that has the dog washing station, which is great.

And then we have room for the incubator and the oxygen tank. So we’ve got like a whole nursery set up. People come downstairs and they’re kind of like, wow, I didn’t know all this would be down here.

Because it does kind of look like a little puppy nursery area. And I do think that people like that it’s in my home, that I don’t have a kennel. I have a quarter acre postage stamp size lot.

So I make do with what we have. And that actually, I think is a big selling point. A lot of people like that when they’re getting a puppy from someone, they like the idea that it’s in my basement, it’s a family deal.

Not that it isn’t, if you have a kennel, but I think it feels more personal to them.

Julie Swan | 44:25

I agree. I think it comes across really, really nice. Because it’s still in your home, but I also know being a breeder, how much you need a break.

Sometimes you want to be able to close that door. And so I think this basement is such a sweet spot, or the converted garage. I always feel like you should be able to get to your puppies in your socks.

I know that’s like a really weird thing, but I want to be able to go there in my socks because I don’t always put on shoes, but I need to check on them, you know?

Kim McGuirk | 44:49

Yeah.

Julie Swan | 44:50

So I think it’s a sweet spot.

Kim McGuirk | 44:53

You need to be able to close the door so it doesn’t smell.

Julie Swan | 44:55

I know. Right. I know.

I know. Like there’s that smell, just the new puppy amniotic fluid smell.

Kim McGuirk | 45:03

Yeah. My first litter I did in the front living room, and that’ll never happen again.

Julie Swan | 45:08

I know. I know. There are certain things that would just be like an instant divorce in my life.

And that would be one of them. Yeah.

So tell us how big is your program? How many dogs are you managing in this setup?

Kim McGuirk | 45:23

We have three dogs that are studs. Only one of them live with us, because you know, it’s hard to have studs with the girls, especially more than one stud. And then we have four girls.

So two of our studs in guardian homes that are close by, which is great and handy. The girls are all in my, I have a dog room that was like a converted family room, and they’re all in there. So I have about three to five litters a year.

It’s not huge.

Julie Swan | 45:54

It’s great.

Kim McGuirk | 45:55

Yeah. I think it’s just right for what we want to do.

Julie Swan | 45:58

I think it’s a very sustainable size, especially when you can get a good margin and you have decent litters, right? Like how many puppies on average?

Kim McGuirk | 46:06

The last few litters have been eight or nine. We’ve had some as little as three, our smallest litter was three. Our biggest litter was nine.

And usually it hovers around that seven to nine.

Julie Swan | 46:19

That’s such a nice amount of puppies. A wide variety. Yeah, exactly. I know I’m really having a hard time getting used to these tinier Rat Terrier litters.

I’m like, well, there was one girl. Here you go. I have one girl.

She’s so tiny. She’s a 13 pound dog, and she only has like three puppies, her last litter was two. I was like, come on girl.

And then her sister had seven. That was my biggest Rat Terrier litter, but yeah, they’re just not large litters. I’m so used to the GSPs, you know, eight, nine, sometimes 10, 11.

It’s nice. Yeah. So that’s wonderful. Okay. So that’s pretty easy. And I think it works out great. How did you get those people to be guardians for you with the studs?

Like, did you con them? Did you bribe them? How’d you do it?

Kim McGuirk | 47:12

Well, our first one, Vinnie, he actually lived in Europe for a while. He’s won a lot of shows. He’s got a great pedigree.

He’s kind of a big deal. So when I posted about him on my Facebook group, I made it out that it’s an opportunity to own a really, really special dog who has a great resume. And I offered a discounted price for him.

And I wanted somebody who lived within a half an hour from us. So the fact that they could get this fancy show quality dog and a fraction of the price. I think I just marketed well, and I found a perfect family for him, and they’ve been so easy to work with and so nice.

And I know it doesn’t always work out that way. Sometimes guardian homes can go left or right, but we’ve been lucky with that one. Our other one, we just placed recently, and he is probably not going to be used more than a couple more times.

And he went to an older lady. And again, I offer them a really reasonable price and then I try to make incentives for them. When they let me borrow them back for breeding, I’ll, you know, send them a gift certificate or something like that to make it worthwhile.

Julie Swan | 48:27

Oh that’s nice.

Kim McGuirk | 48:28

Yeah. I’ve been lucky so far.

Julie Swan | 48:31

So you’re pretty upfront about things. And so if you were importing that dog or whatever, you would do all the work of getting him and you own him.

Kim McGuirk | 48:38

Oh yeah. I keep it all in my name. We do all the health testing. And then once the dog is neutered and done with being a stud, then I sign them over to them. Sign the AKC papers over to them.

Julie Swan | 48:51

That makes sense. What would you say proportionately, do you sell them at like half the price of one of your puppies or something like that?

Kim McGuirk | 48:59

Less than half the price.

Julie Swan | 49:01

Okay. So it’s super affordable comparatively.

Kim McGuirk | 49:04

And ironically, the people that ended up taking me up on that are not people who can’t afford a puppy. And that’s what I want. I don’t want them to be in it because it’s a good deal, but I also want to be reasonable and be like, okay, this is a five-year-old dog.

It’s not a dog with its whole life ahead of him. So I want to be fair. But I don’t really want to attract people that are just doing it because the price is lower.

I found great homes for them. So again, I feel like I’m lucky. And I think advertising on my page gave me options, because I had probably 15 to 20 people asking about them.

So it gave me the opportunity to be able to weed through, and sort through.

Julie Swan | 49:45

And find who was the right fit. Yeah. That makes sense. And you use that Facebook group that you had, that’s like everybody?

Kim McGuirk | 49:52

No, so I have a business page for my kennel. And then I have this Facebook group. I think I might’ve put it on both.

I probably put it on both at the time that I was advertising him. But I think I got more hits off my Facebook and maybe on my personal page too, I can’t remember. But yeah, I got a big variety of people.

So I was able to interview them, and find the one that I thought would be the best fit, and the easiest people to work with, because that’s half the battle, you know?

Julie Swan | 50:18

That’s so true. That’s so true. And then can you just share, I know you pay for health testing.

How do you do standard vet care? Like, where does that fall into it?

Kim McGuirk | 50:28

So, for example, one of my stud dogs just had an incident a couple of weeks ago, where they had exposed the dog to some sugar-free xylitol type gum and he was sick in the ER. So I have it written into my contract that anything that, he’s okay, by the way, everything’s fine. In my contract, if it’s normal vet care or routine maintenance, you know, preventative maintenance type care, or anything that happens in their care, in their charge.

And they exposed them to this gum, obviously they’re going to pay for any vet bills like that. If there’s anything related to, you know, brucellosis testing or anything related to the repro end of things, or if he gets hurt while he’s here doing a breeding, that would all be on my expense. I think it’s kind of common sense, preventative maintenance, things like the flea and tick preventatives and doing his vaccines and things like that, owners pay for it.

Just like they would a regular dog that’s their pet. So it’s worked out, and nobody has really questioned it, or felt like it’s unfair. So I think it’s working.

Julie Swan | 51:35

No, it seems like it’s working great. And I love too the competition a little bit, like, here’s this, who wants them.

And now we’ve got comments and we can see all these people are interested. And so it kind of makes you want to win him, you know? And I think there’s also, when you do pick somebody, they feel like “I got the special dog.”

So I like how that’s working. I think it’s really good.

Kim McGuirk | 51:58

And they really did get a special dog, he really is. It was hard to let him go. He really was a special dog. So is still to this day.

Julie Swan | 52:06

I know what you mean, but I also understand too, especially with your lot size and I’m sure your winters aren’t a piece of cake. Kim, thanks so much. This has been so helpful.

And I love that you’re sharing this and I love how you do business. I just love seeing all the success you’re having. And I just love learning about your breed, I just think they’re so cool.

So tell us, new breeders are out there listening. What advice do you have for new breeders?

Kim McGuirk | 52:31

My two pieces of advice, one of them is make yourself able to be found. I think a lot of people miss that, key things like having a good website. I have a lot of competitors in my breed that don’t even have websites.

They rely solely on their Facebook or their Instagram or Good Dog or AKC Marketplace. I think everybody has to have a website, because clients want to go there, and they want to learn more about you. And they’re checking certain things.

People have told me, “I go to your website to see if everything’s current and up to date.” Do you add new information? Is it the same six months from now as it is today?

They want to know that you’re actively working on it. So having a website, having a Google page will help people find you, and asking for reviews. I think that’s key.

That’s helped me a lot. My reviews have boosted my Google rankings up so that I’m not paying for ads, but my page is being shown more often. The other thing I would say, is find a mentor and don’t be afraid to ask someone that you admire or that you respect that’s in the breed, and that you think is doing a good job, and you want to emulate, because nine out of 10 times, I think I would be flattered if somebody came to me and asked me if they could learn from me.

And even if it’s not in the traditional place that you would think, like, obviously, if you get a dog from somebody that could become your mentor, but it doesn’t have to be from somebody that you got a dog from. It could be from somebody you see at shows that you admire, or somebody else’s business that you’ve seen that’s doing well. So don’t be afraid to look for mentors.

And then when you’re successful, and you’re doing well, to return that favor and to help somebody else out.

Julie Swan | 54:15

Yeah. Oh, I love that. That’s so true.

I know. Stop being the gatekeeper that you hated years ago.

Kim McGuirk | 54:21

Exactly, exactly.

Julie Swan | 54:22

I love that. When you asked those mentors, and started working with them, did you approach them in that capacity, or did you just kind of start a friendship with them? And how did that go?

Kim McGuirk | 54:33

I didn’t, but I wouldn’t be afraid to do that. I think that’s totally a great way to do it. Mine came out kind of organically.

One lady who was wonderful to me at the beginning, was somebody I met through dog shows. Her dog was showing at one of my shows, and she knew that I was going to be there. She asked me to record them.

So we just started talking from there and she had been in another breed for a while. She’d been in Portuguese Water Dogs and was a wealth of knowledge. And she had nothing to gain by being friends with me or helping me, but she kind of took me under her wing and told me, “Oh, you’re doing this right.

You’re not doing that right. Do this better.” And she kind of fixed me up, so to speak.

And again, I ended up getting a dog from her down the line, but the first two years I knew her, she had nothing to gain from helping me, except that she wanted me to do well in the breed and she wanted the breed to get better. And so finding good people like that, I think is really important, and being that good person helping somebody else.

Julie Swan | 55:31

Yeah, that makes sense. I think when you just go in to learn, like it sounds like you did, it seems to go over better. Well, thanks so much, Kim.

It’s just been a pleasure having you on the show. Thank you.

Kim McGuirk | 55:44

It’s been fun.