The 12 Days of Breeders is a series of interviews conducted with members of the Dog Breeder Society who are doing innovative, creative, and inspiring things in their dog breeding business. In each of these interviews we cover challenges each breeder has encountered, and how they’ve overcome those challenges to find success in their breeding program. Join me for all twelve of these interviews for inspiration, and countless actionable tips you can use to overcome (or avoid) challenges in your own dog breeding program! You can check out all of the interviews in this series here.
Susan Davis & Davis Doodles Australian Labradoodles
Susan started her own bloodlines of Australian Labradoodles nearly two decades ago! She built her program from the bottom up and has amazing dogs today because of it! She shares her story, her ups and downs, how she got started and what she loves. She also explains her method of explaining temperament, drive, personality, and activity level in a way that truly helps her buyers understand. You’ll love learning from her experience and story.
Learn more about Susan and Davis Doodles Australian Labradoodles
Transcript
Julie Swan | 0:00
Welcome to the Honest Dog Breeder podcast with me, your host Julie Swan. Where each week we dive in to discuss all things dog breeding so you can build a breeding business you love, producing dogs that fulfill their owners’ dreams. I believe you can have an honest dog breeding program that also pays the bills.
So throw those pods in your ears while you’re cleaning kennels, I’d love to join you. Today I am so excited we have Susan Davis of Davis Doodles with us. Susan, you breed Australian Labradoodles and you’ve been doing this for a while.
Tell us, how long have you been doing this and how did you get started?
Susan Davis | 0:36
I got my first breeding dog 19 years ago and had my first litter a little over 17 years ago.
Julie Swan | 0:44
Wow, wow. And always, always Australian Labradoodle, yes?
Susan Davis | 0:49
Nope, just Labradoodles in the beginning. I lucked into, my neighbor got the most beautiful chocolate lab in a litter and I always had two dogs and I had lost my senior Golden Retriever before that and so I was thinking about a puppy anyway and then when I met her Lab I asked if they had any left and she said no, sorry. And two days later she called me back and the breeder she got her Lab from had held back a breeder pick and his daughter was going to raise the Lab but she had a new baby, human baby, and so this breeder pick puppy was available.
And I jumped on it and just thought it was interesting that it happened to be a breeder pick puppy and I was asking questions about what that means and he said you know what if you want to have a litter with her that’s fine with me I can make that registration happen.
And around that time my daughter was diagnosed with asthma and Tiger Woods appeared on the cover of Life Magazine with his Doodles and I was intrigued and my husband has allergies and was very allergic to the Golden Retrievers and the Lab and he grew up with Standard Poodles and we just thought hey this might be fun let’s do this we have five human kids who were all under 14 at that time and I really just thought it would be fun.
Julie Swan | 2:26
That’s always like the dangerous thing right “it’ll be fun”. I think you have to have kind of like a ignorant optimism a little bit sometimes.
Susan Davis | 2:35
And I did. I could not have been more ignorant. I mean, I have a business degree but I did not know anything about dog breeding.
Julie Swan | 2:47
There is no degree for dog breeding. So you had your Lab and so now did you end up getting a Poodle or where did you go next?
Susan Davis | 2:58
No, I started when she was about a year old I started calling Poodle breeders Standard Poodle breeders and they’re not so into Doodles so it was not well received. So I just kept calling around and I found a really nice person who bred champion Standard Poodles in a state near mine and she said she would hire stud service for this, and so when she was in season, I called her we met her, and she bred them and she was pregnant and we had six puppies in our first litter a couple months later, and it was a lot of fun.
Julie Swan | 3:52
It was a lot of fun.
Susan Davis | 3:53
It was also a lot of mess – more than I’d anticipated.
Julie Swan | 3:57
Yeah right I think that’s always the thing, right yeah.
Susan Davis | 4:01
We had just moved into our brand new house, and we had no furniture in our dining room, and we thought that it was a great place to to do it, because it didn’t have furniture in it, and that’s where we had our first litter.
Julie Swan | 4:17
And you and Ned are still married today so this is good.
Susan Davis | 4:21
Yes, yes, we have been married for some time, and we’ve known each other since we were 19, so 30 something, 30 a lot of years.
Julie Swan | 4:30
Good, so good, that’s perfect. Okay so you have this the first litter, so all in all, at the end of that first litter, you were like this was great let’s do it again.
Susan Davis | 4:39
No, my dog Karma was her name, and she, it’s very serendipitous, but she got mastitis when she was whelping, and so we went to the vet and they gave her a shot of antibiotics and all the things, and she ended up getting really sick over the weekend, and had to have emergency surgery.
She was almost at the end of weaning anyway but we accelerated that, and I went looking for support online. And I found a very experienced, or more experienced than me, breeder here nearby who had just gone through mastitis with one of her litters and she reached out to me and I was able to connect with her and she pointed out all the things I was doing wrong. And she challenged me to to you know, step up and learn more, and I think I was just very lucky to have found someone so willing to give their time to somebody like me.
A couple years in she said are you sure you really want to keep doing this? I said I think now I’m addicted.
Julie Swan | 6:05
Yeah and what did she mean when she was asking you that?
Susan Davis | 6:09
My second litter we had a puppy that was not thriving. Litter was born on Christmas day and the puppy couldn’t latch. I’m calling her, she said well you know if it weren’t Christmas day I could come over and teach you how to tube feed, but it’s Christmas day, and anyway I did the best I could, syringing doing things, and we lost the puppy. And after that, when that litter went home two months later is when she asked me, because it was really hard you know with five kids who were really invested it was my first loss.
Over the years I have fortunately had apparently according to all my vets very unusual, like low number of losses over the years but that was our first one, her name was Pee Wee. My kids still, even though all these years have gone by, they still remember that. But anyway, that’s why she asked, you know this job isn’t for sissies and have to say that I agree but I learned a lot. My next litter I had the only c-section I’ve ever had and she probably asked me again after that because I went home tube feeding that litter for 10 days.
My reproductive vet said do not get attached to any of these puppies, any one of them could be lost at any moment, just know that, and sent me home with six puppies, taught me to tube feed which I did for 10 days till her milk came in.
I had a lot, between the mastitis and the surgery the emotional loss of the puppy, and then in the third litter having the c-section and learning to tube feed, I you know, it’s quick on the job training, and you know it was expensive and it was a lot of heartbreak, but a lot of joy in the families that adopted the babies, and I just became increasingly fascinated by everything about raising puppies, breeding better, how can we improve on this or that or whatever. Every litter I found an opportunity, I learned something new, and made a point to do something different the next time. And I’ve continued to do that, and we’ve had I think 80 litters, and placed 600 puppies.
Julie Swan | 8:52
Wow, yeah that makes so much sense, and I agree with you. I think so many breeders that are new, getting started want everything to be perfect that first litter, and you’re going to come into things you couldn’t have anticipated, and you’re gonna have to deal with them. Like you couldn’t plan for mastitis, like we all know it’s a possibility, but how it manifests, what to do with it, for that one to be so severe, you know there all these crazy things.
And you know that’s where I’m always thinking you need, like after you have four litters like okay now we can kind of like slow, but up until then it can just be kind of chaos, but as long as we’re always learning and making it better I mean that’s why going to a breeder with experience is wonderful.
Susan Davis | 9:28
I think so too.
Julie Swan | 9:37
Yeah, so did money play a role? Like were you able to do something with the puppy money? Were you drowning?
Susan Davis | 9:42
Not those first few litters because I had so many medical expenses which is actually that was part of my argument to my husband, because he’s like “um well you’re not making anything, in fact you’re negative” I said “yeah” and I said “but think of all I’ve learned, the learning curve, we can eventually, we will make some money” and I think five years in, he figured out I was making a $1.82 an hour. So I definitely, you know, he saw how passionate I was about it and how important it was to me, and he supported me from the beginning, he wasn’t very involved though. I mean he had a regular corporate job and you know gone from the house 50 hours.
Julie Swan | 10:33
That’s pretty normal, very few breeders like a full-on team from the house.
Susan Davis | 10:41
And it wasn’t full-time either, I was having maybe two to four litters a year early on. And I remember when I was finally able to pay for our first vacation that was, that I always say was thanks to Davis Doodles. And that’s what we used it for.
But now my husband has left corporate America and he works with me full-time. My oldest daughter has married, and moved out of the house, and she works with us full-time, she’s our chief puppy raiser.
Ned and I deliver the babies here, we have them for the first four weeks, then they go over to Lizzie’s house, and she does all the intermediate and advanced socialization and introductions to things.
We have a family fun day that our waiting list families can come and interact with the puppies at six weeks, and we tell them that they are not there to pick a puppy, they are there to help us socialize this litter, so if they’re going to get too attached to a particular one, because we match based on temperament, not your favorite color or whatever, then if they feel like they need to skip it that’s up to them. Sometimes that happens, but rarely. People like to come and see them. And they feel like they’re helping, they’re part of the process, we want our families to feel part of the process, but we also won’t just, like our waiting list families, we will not even introduce them to a puppy that is not an appropriate temperament for them that will thrive in their environment.
Julie Swan | 12:21
So tell us a little bit about how you do that because that’s a really good point, and I definitely agree with you. But enacting it is sometimes a little confusing.
So all right so you got like six puppies and this family, only three of them are going to work for them. So what do you do? How do you pitch it once you kind of figured out the these puppies will not work, but these puppies could work, this one might be better, but this one has potential, whatever so how do you handle that?
Susan Davis | 12:53
I can give you an example from like pretty early on. I was working with a family that had four boys under 10, that was their family dynamic. And a lot of people you know say puppies don’t do well with young kids and whatever.
I think it’s more about setting expectations, and you know I had five kids, so ours were way socialized to kids and stuff, and I feel like every family, there’s probably an appropriate puppy for every family, but it might not check every box you have for gender or color or whatever. And in Australian Labradoodles, we are a breed in development, so we do get, you know we can get, a big size difference across a litter and that kind of thing.
So four little boys and fortunately the litter there were nine puppies, and they were all chocolate, so color was a non-issue with them. But temperament was really important, the parents were emergency doctors, and you know little chaotic schedules with sports and all the things, so we basically, I have done temperament testing with a certified professional trainer more recently, but I used to, I always did temperament testing but I would have like a friend come over to run them through the things and see how they react to someone they’ve never seen.
So anyway it gave us a lot of information going in, and I have a pretty rigorous application process, so I know a lot about my families before we go in, not just their family dynamic, but what do you do on the weekends, what do you need, what are you looking for? And then I sometimes have to tell them what they need.
So a family with four little boys if they’re on the go all the time, they need a puppy that’s going to be pretty active, but able to chill out and manage it when they’re gone for sporting things and whatever, I mean it has to be a confident, you know more active puppy, compared to say a family of two retirees. They need a much less active puppy.
Families with kids under five need puppies that are not super mouthy. I mean these are all things that we started to pay attention to very early on. And it was very easy for us to tell, because I had all these, you know all the kids.
I also had an assistant who, she just came to me looking for a Labradoodle, but she’s allergic to the entire planet, dogs, cats, outside, inside, she’s allergic to everything, and she said “hey so I can’t afford a Labradoodle, do you have any work I can do?” and I laughed – do I have any work you can do – absolutely.
And she started out by fostering dogs for us, and for years she was our allergy barometer. And I was still doing early gens in the beginning, which produce more allergens than once you get into the multi-gen with Australian Labradoodles. So we put her on the floor with the puppies and say – let them lick you, let them whatever, let’s see if you hive up. If you hive up, then we know they’re still producing more allergens than we like to see.
Anyway she just moved away, she worked for us for 14 years, and six of our dogs went with her. And she has no reactions to them, and we miss her but, we were really lucky to have her.
Julie Swan | 16:35
Oh that’s so awesome. Well that’s perfect, so yeah I agree, so when you worked with that family and you were trying to you know say “hey look these ones are going to be right for you”, did you just not tell them, did you say “hey I’ve removed these because they’re not going to do well in your life”?
Susan Davis | 16:57
Well that family, our biohazard protocols now are a lot more strict now than they were, but these people found me because their kids went to my kid’s school. So someone knew that we were doing this, and that’s how they found their way to us, and so I let them come pretty early in the process to visit, and watch mom nurse, and whatever.
And you know even with brief visits, even though all nine looked exactly the same, they would gravitate to their collar color or whatever. But in the end, they asked me what do you think. And I didn’t want to introduce them to nine, that’s too much too many, and I had learned enough about temperament then, that at seven weeks when I got the temperament testing results back from whichever of my friends did that, I could tell which ones had the chops to handle a family four boys under 10.
I think I let them meet three of them, and they were thrilled. His name is Bodie, and he is still with them, he’s getting up there in years though. I think he’s about, he must be 14 maybe now. But they were thrilled with the three choices they had and they made it really easy.
Now over the years since then, things have changed, the market changes. And if you have a litter that has a lot of colors in it, or say you have a litter that only has girls, and you have people on your waiting list who want boys, how do you talk to them about that. And ultimately people who get on our waiting list, if they are not happy with their selections that we have narrowed to at the end, after temperament testing, which we narrow to two or three depending on the size of the litter and how high they were on the list, they can defer to the next litter.
But I have to say, it’s rare, most people in the end I’m able to get them to lean into the temperament piece, and what will work best for your family. We’ve even had people come to us and say “we would prefer you just pick, we don’t want to meet two, we don’t want two options.” That’s usually like referrals, they heard from me from so and so and know that we are super temperament focused, and it happens more with beginners. We can eventually get them there, but if we can’t, and I don’t have what someone wants at the end, then I would say 95-98 percent of the time they will wait for the next litter, if they are that focused on a particular gender or color.
Julie Swan | 19:58
Yeah that makes a lot of sense. I know with me, when I get down to the end, I got one or two pups left to sell, and I didn’t have anybody on the waitlist for them, then I’ll be like “this is what I have”. But the option is always this or the next litter. Yeah, I think that’s pretty normal.
Susan Davis | 20:09
Over time we were producing more litters. In the beginning we were just doing standards, and so we have since added, the next size we added was minis, and it’s because we had a lot of people asking, you know people who lived in apartments, couples, and smaller living spaces or whatever.
And so I added a mini, that I co-owned with my mentor, the one who helped me through the mastitis situation, and taught me so much. Anyway, we co-owned a mini together, and so we added a mini line, and then since then we now also breed mediums.
So we have produced puppies that are 10-11 pounds and probably our biggest one ever was 85 pounds maybe. I don’t aim for that anymore, they take up way too much space in the car.
Julie Swan | 21:07
Yeah exactly. So you’ve mentioned a mentor a couple times, and so you had I would say a pretty good situation in a mentor. Somebody who was available.
Susan Davis | 21:20
I was lucky.
Julie Swan | 21:27
Yeah I think so. I get a lot of back in the day when I was like on the internet trying to find help for things, everyone was like “just get a mentor” “just get a mentor” and it’s like yeah easier said than done. Do you have any advice for breeders getting in when you do recommend, you had a good situation, what do you think?
Susan Davis | 21:44
I would encourage anyone to find a mentor, but you may have to have more than one.
Like my mentor in particular was really good with the medical stuff. She was a RN for her career before she was breeding. So she was really great with the medical stuff, and she could walk me through anything on the phone, how to give fluids, how to do all kinds of things. She taught me how to give shots, she taught my daughter how to AI. She’s just, it’s one of her gifts, but she had a pretty big program as I was growing too, we both were growing, but her program was really big, probably one of the bigger programs in the southeast, and she didn’t know as much say about social media.
So for instance, I had a Facebook page before she did. And you know, then I had teenagers who were kind of telling me what I needed to do. But anyway, you may just need people with different strengths to kind of help you figure out which pieces.
There’s this really cool website that has a whole lot of information on it’s called the Honest Dog Breeder, and there’s a whole bunch of really great information there. But I still think that there is value in learning from a person and having a kind of a team of resources. You don’t always have to agree all the time, but having the right people who can coach you through things.
Like I had this business background, and I’d had dogs since, you know I grew up with dogs, and then had dogs, my first dog since I was 19. But I did not know what I did not know when I started. And so I was on forums online looking for information asking questions.
I lucked into um a position, it was a volunteer position, for a non-profit doodle rescue organization that was founded by a wonderful behaviorist. It was the first doodle rescue organization in the U.S. I think it was founded in 1995 maybe. And I was part of their Cupid program, so I was looking at paperwork coming in from families who wanted to adopt a dog. Typically they’re all because somebody in their family has allergies. And then I would see all the information that came in to the rescue organization about this dog or that dog, and I was helping match them up like all across the country.
And because of that, I got invited to a really cool conference at Wolf Park in Indiana which was fantastic. And that is where I learned everything, that was where my foundation for the temperament thing like took off. I was fascinated, I paid extra for the class where I learned about the wolves body language. I went into their pen and interacted with these wild wolves. I learned so much, and ever since then, I have to say I’m pretty geeked out on behavior.
I have two different trainers that I work with, two different training companies that I work with. And I’ve really learned a lot in the last decade even. I learn something every time I meet with them. So every time I have a litter evaluation. And now both of those companies evaluate every litter that we have and there is value to that, as great a job as my friends did, I’ve learned a lot.
I’ve taken classes online from different sources on how to evaluate a litter and stuff. It has made a really big difference. There’s a lot of information out there though, and it’s hard to know what what’s the right information. Because there’s just as much bad information in training and breeding and whatever out there, so it’s important that you find a group that you trust, that you get along with well, you have a good rapport with.
Even when Carol was telling me something I did wrong, she circled back around and told me how to solve it, and I just did. I did what she told me, for the those first five years for sure. And I’m glad I did.
And then I shifted my focus, after my years in rescue, to really just do as much as I could, and understand as much as I could, temperamentally.
Julie Swan | 26:43
Yeah do you find your inclinations now are pretty much in alignment with what you get in your results?
Susan Davis | 26:50
Yes, in fact you know occasionally, and apparently there’s studies and stuff being done on this now, there’s a stage of development that hits somewhere between two and three. And you’ll all of a sudden see some weird behavior. So if I get a family who has is seeing some weird behavior, this is not the second fear period, it’s sometime after that, I will go back and pull the seven week testing, and I’ll say oh there’s that, there’s a glimpse. I mean if I didn’t know what I know, I wouldn’t have I wouldn’t have seen it at the at seven weeks, but at three when they’re having this issue, I’m like oh there it is.
I do two different types of temperament testing. Volhard testing has been around for a million years, we do kind of what we call Volhard light, I’m not a big believer in the firm alpha rollover and all that stuff. So we do kind of a light version, but you know the social greeting and all of those things, really provide that snapshot. But the reality is that it’s five minutes with the trainer, and it isn’t the total puppy picture, it’s really not. And so then within a couple days, we do the other kind of testing, that is kind of a morph of several different evaluating things, that I have found give me the most information.
And then we look at both of those, we pick our breeder picks if there are going to be any, and then we start to narrow for each family. And we do consider their preferences, that’s part of the paperwork they’ve given me.
So if there’s two that are completely equal, and the right color and the right gender that the people want, then those are the two that they’ll meet. But if there is one that’s the wrong color, or wrong gender, and I say it’s not really wrong, it’s just not the didn’t check that box for them, I will say now there’s one that’s actually significantly a better fit for you, do you want to meet that dog? Or do you want to meet the one that checks more of your boxes? And we do this over Zoom. And I kind of let them decide.
A lot of Australian Labradoodle breeders do allocations, they assign puppies to families. I realize that there you know can be value to that, but we want our families invested in the decision with us, because I can’t presume to know enough about individual family or their children or whatever, to make that decision.
You know we’re very candid with the pros, and the things they’re going to have to work on, and you know if everything is equal, it goes one way and if there’s not I’ll tell them, and they get to decide. And I would say more often than not, they go with the one that is the better fit. I can only think of maybe twice that I said, this dog is the right dog for you. And they said, well, we’re going to go with the one you think is is less perfect. But I won’t, there’s no such thing as a perfect puppy.
Anyway, I can’t say that enough. I tell families that all the time.
No such thing as a perfect puppy. Just like our human kids are not perfect.
You want to see the things that. I want it to be as easy as possible, because child rearing and puppy raising is hard. It just is.
And having a new puppy is like, bringing home a new baby. I mean, I send home an 111 page book as their introduction. And I’ve had people tell me it’s like a Montessori program for raising their dog.
My kids didn’t go to Montessori school, but my grandson is now. So now I kind of get what that means. I give my families a lot of resources because I think just handing a puppy to say, a beginner family, and you don’t set their expectations.
It sets the people up to fail and the puppy up to not be successful. And that’s not fair to anybody. So, you know, we do a lot, or as much as we can to set family’s expectations.
And make every puppy the very best that they can be with the understanding there is no, such thing as a perfect puppy.
Julie Swan | 31:38
Yeah, again, it’s setting that expectation. Right? I’ve found that to be so successful, by setting the expectation.
Like, if they didn’t know that the puppy was going to maybe not enjoy being in a crate, and then they go in the crate and start screaming, you know, if they know that’s coming, all of a sudden, you’re not a bad breeder. They didn’t get a broken puppy.
This is normal. You know, and so there’s that. It’s beautiful when they understand it. And then on top of it, you’ve given them the tools to work with it.
Right here is how you work with it.
Susan Davis | 32:07
I’m also available to them. Like I say, they can text me at any time. And we send as soon as someone decides to move forward with a litter, they join our waiting list.
We send puppy prep documents that has some recommended reading. And it’s nothing’s hard, my recommended reading is not, something hard for them. Sometimes they’ll say, well, you know, my 11 year old is particularly interested in getting this puppy. So I’ll say, well your 11 year old can read this book.
It’s that easy. So, it’s just to kind of help set expectations, and then the bulk of the book is, so here’s what you do, like your tips for the 1st few days, and then there’s a bunch of stuff medical, and training, and all things.
Julie Swan | 32:56
Oh, that’s so good. I know. And it, it makes people feel good.
And I love it too, because it saves you time because when they text, and then you’re like, go to page 17.
Susan Davis | 33:14
And I say that, I do a go home meeting with my families also. I do it over zoom before the litter goes home, and that’s when they get their book. Yeah. So.
Payments are all made and paperwork is finished, and they get their book, and then we have a meeting and I kind of talk them through the year 1 important dates, like, when to do their 1st grooming. Because that’s the thing with Doodles and Poodles and whatever. But people coming from a different background who didn’t have to have a dog that was groomed. I have to set their expectations, so we go over that, and we talk about vaccines and all the things.
Julie Swan | 33:54
Yeah, well, I think it’s really, really helpful. I think it’s helpful. So. It sounds like you took everything that you had, and you constantly learned, you constantly were turning over and say, okay, what’s not working?
What can we do better? And you started implementing with each litter. And I think you still do that today. I mean, just in talking you.
You’re always talking about some new thing you’re working on or trying, which I love.
Susan Davis | 34:14
Sometimes you try things and it’s not, you don’t get the result that you were looking for. And so you have to be able to pivot, and change direction, and do things a little differently. You know, to try to continue to bring out the very, very best in the dogs that we bring into the world, and take care of our families that choose to adopt them.
Julie Swan | 34:39
Yeah. I totally agree with you. And I think that is one of the hardest parts about working with a mentor sometimes, is that they’re going to say, you need to do something this way.
And depending on the mentor, sometimes you’ll do it a different way. And they’ll be like, why did you do that? You know, and they’ll get irritated, and then other times you’ll do it and it doesn’t work for you.
You know, I remember people are like, well, you need to go out there and do this every hour. And I’m like, yeah, that’s happening. I have two little kids.
So I need a different solution. And so I think there’s always that growing piece. And that’s why I love your idea to get multiple mentors or maybe start, you know, somewhere.
And I think it’s nice to have somebody in the breed to teach you breed culture.
Susan Davis | 35:22
Yes.
Julie Swan | 35:23
Like, yeah, like, I don’t do show, I talk to some of these people in the show world.
I’m like, you what? That happened how? And I’m just blown away, but it’s really important to know if you’re in that world, and you really can’t get that unless you’re in it with a breed specific group.
Yeah, it’s almost like hanging out with like the popular girl in high school just to like learn the ropes. Right? Like, can you take me around for a few days?
Yeah.
Susan Davis | 35:49
Exactly. So and I like I’m in a couple mentorship groups on line to, where if someone brings in a new breeder to, you know, it’s for Australian Labradoodle breeders, you know, and ask questions, any breeder who’s in this group can answer it. And you’ll get different opinions too.
And because what works for one puppy doesn’t necessarily work for another puppy, even in the same litter. But in a, you know, this litter will be different than that litter. And then what works for every family, you know, we’re all unique, the dogs are all unique, every family’s needs are just different.
And so getting to know the people you’re working with, and having resources at your fingertips, with options on things to try or things to do are great. But I’ve seen some of those groups like they’ve saved whole litters when people got like, CHV, for instance, or some of the big, bad, scary illnesses, you know, finding that group is important, I think, to have available.
Julie Swan | 37:06
Yeah, I found I like the community, I’m spoiled, because everybody inside the Dog Breeders Society is really cool. Like, everybody inside I like everyone. There’s none of that cattiness, none of that crap, because that was the stuff I got so exhausted from on Facebook. I literally checked out and talked to not a single breeder for seven years.
I was so done with it. They were just awful. I mean, I had one breeder tell me to drown puppies if they came out deformed.
That was my guidance. And I had another guy who was trying to leverage me and wasn’t really giving me the whole story. And, you know, so I just had a really bad taste in my mouth for it.
Susan Davis | 37:43
And that’s a tough to me, that’s a really rough beginning. So you say you’re spoiled now, I feel like I was a little spoiled in the beginning.
But it wasn’t easy. I mean, the C-section, knowing what I know now, I probably wouldn’t have had it. But I didn’t know any better.
And I, you know, was taking counsel from even the vets, the vets and the experienced breeders. But now I know I could have, you know, not done that. But then there since then has been a time where I wish I had gone ahead and done it.
So, you know, we do the best we can, and know that there’s going to be bobbles, and it’s not always going to go easy. And sometimes you’re going to have a puppy that struggles and you’re not going to sleep because you’re going to be tube feeding or whatever, for however long and, you know. But it’s still, you know, when you save a puppy and then they go on and find their right family, it’s there’s just nothing like that.
Julie Swan | 38:52
No, you can’t beat those moments. They just are so impactful. Or when somebody calls you, you know, I had a buyer call me the other day and he said, I don’t know what my life would be like if I didn’t have your dog. He’s like, I just don’t, she brings such a richness to my life, you know.
And you’re just like, you can’t you can’t beat that. You can never watch a Netflix movie and feel that good afterwards, it just doesn’t work.
Susan Davis | 39:14
You can’t even watch a Hallmark movie and feel that good afterwards.
Julie Swan | 39:17
Yeah, those I’m always like, did they pay attention to anything in relationship?
Susan Davis | 39:22
Yeah, we’ve had some cool collaborations, too. Like we donated a dog to our local fire department, and she goes into schools and teaches kids about fire safety. You know, she does some tricks, stop, drop and roll and puts her paw on the door to show them to check for heat.
But she also acts as an emotional support animal for firefighters who’ve experienced trauma on the job. That’s kind of a unique dual role. Normally, those would be two completely different dogs.
But this dog had what it took to do that. And I will get texts from families who bought dogs six, eight, ten years ago and say, I think we met one of your dogs in my child’s first grade class, or whatever. And I’m like, oh, you met Hallie, the fire dog.
You know, that’s great. I mean, we’ve just had some very unique opportunities over the years, and it’s just added a real richness to what we do. And, you know, nothing compares to it.
We just have been very fortunate.
Julie Swan | 40:34
Yeah, well, I think one of the things that you’ve always stressed to me was so high on your list was retaining that temperament because, you know, color, all that other stuff can be adapted and changed. But that temperament is everything. And I think at the core of all the personal referrals you’ve had over the years, because I’ve noticed your dogs tend to go like down an industry.
Like, you know, don’t you have a bunch of doctors, chiropractors kind of like with your dogs.
Susan Davis | 40:59
Some of my doctors have my dogs, have been guardians for some of our breeding dogs.
Julie Swan | 41:06
Yeah, so having that kind of window, and then having those dogs meet other people and live up to everything that people want in a dog. You really, it’s such a beautiful thing to get a referral saying I know one of your dogs and I love them and I want one for myself.
Susan Davis | 41:21
Yeah, those are my favorite emails besides the ones like your buyer that just called you and said, I don’t know what my life would be like without your dog. And that’s, you know, you get through the hard stuff because you live for that feedback. I mean, it’s what makes us, especially since our business is all family, like one of my daughters does social media.
One is the, you know, the litter raiser at her house. My husband works with me full time. My sister does all the administrative stuff.
So to be a small family run organization, it’s there’s something really special and unique about that too. But there is a fine line between mom and boss. I’ve had to learn with my, who is an adult, but occasionally I do still play the mom card when needed.
Julie Swan | 42:20
I get it. I get it. Yeah, no, it’s like that sometimes.
You have a beautiful explanation that you’ve given me a couple of times over the time we’ve known each other and I love it. And so for you that are listening on the podcast and can’t see anything, Susan starts by putting her hands together, her index fingers together and her thumbs together to make a triangle. And she starts to explain this.
So can you explain how you talk about the difference in personality temperament? And then what the family hopes the dog will be, whether that’s a therapy dog, service dog, or just a companion.
Susan Davis | 42:52
Right. Yes. So if you’re imagining the triangle in one bottom corner is temperament.
And I explained to families that temperament is what they’re born with. It’s what’s in their DNA. You know, it can go back generations. In the other corner, the opposite bottom corner is personality, which is what develops over time and from social learning and, you know, your household and all that kind of thing.
And then at the top of the triangle, we consider energy level, which kind of slides down the sides of the triangle too, and it influences temperament and personality. So if you have dogs with very similar personalities or very similar temperaments and one’s high energy and one’s low energy, that dog will behave completely differently. It’ll train differently.
It’ll interact differently with new people or whatever. That’s because energy level does play such a significant, it has a significant influence over those other things. But the biggest part is you take the middle of the triangle and you shade it all in and that’s training.
Training your dog is extremely important and it influences everything. You know, as breeders, we have the dogs for this very brief period in time and in their life and having a good positive reinforcement trainer on board, especially if a families a beginner, for instance, I really, really encourage having, you know, get a set of private lessons in the beginning. Training occurs over the life of the dog and an old dog can in fact, learn new tricks.
Even, you know, dogs that are 12 can become trained, you know, in some families for companions and stuff, they don’t necessarily need, you know, a lot of obedience work and that kind of thing, but you still want a well-behaved dog when your kids have friends over, or a contractor comes in or whatever, you need your dog to respond appropriately in those situations, and have the skills to cope with changes, and going out, and to whatever their lifestyle is.
Lots of our families take their dogs on trips. They, you know, every weekend go to the outlet mall. That’s another reason why we have to get to know, have to get to know our families. And we ask a lot of questions in order to meet those expectations, but I think explaining it the way that I, we do, we call it the puppy puzzle is helpful.
It helps people to understand the difference between temperament, personality, and energy.
Julie Swan | 45:45
And I think when you’re discussing it too, the one thing that’s not in that discussion is the color of the dog, you know, and so it really makes you feel like I need to find this dog that is the right fit for me based on these different criteria. And it is a little abstract, but you’re making it more tangible with that. And I just, I love that imagery and I love how, I think that’s probably part of why you get so much success in getting people to get the right dog for them instead of getting stuck on a color or pattern.
Susan Davis | 46:18
Right. And I do, I introduce that pretty early just because they’re, you know, boy bits or girl bits, you know, most of these dogs will be spayed and neutered, the companions. And, you know, I always say they kind of end up gender neutral.
They don’t typically, I mean, Australian Labradoodles, at least ours, typically don’t exhibit stereotypical gender behavior, even if they stay intact. They just, you don’t see a lot of that. You know, so when people start Googling what’s better, boy or girl dog, there’s so much just misinformation out there.
It’s like, be open to the right dog, regardless of what’s under the fluff.
Julie Swan | 47:03
Yes. And I’d say it’s more relevant in some breeds.
Susan Davis | 47:08
That is probably also true.
Julie Swan | 47:10
In my GSPs, it’s a big difference. But in my Rat Terriers, it’s a lot less of a difference.
Susan Davis | 47:16
Like how gender influences behavior? Is that what you mean?
Julie Swan | 47:20
Yeah, it’s interesting. Like in my breed, with the German Shorthairs, the boys are very, like, happy-go-lucky, fun-loving, I love everything. Like, you know, they’re almost high.
Like, that’s kind of how they are. And the girls are very much a contract. Like, look, I’m going to do this.
But we had an agreement. You were going to feed me. These are the treats I like.
Like, it’s much more contractual. Like, their relationship, they’re very loving. They’re fun.
But, you know, and then the girls learn a little easier from the environment. Whereas the boys, like, you need to, like, tell them, like, hey, this is what I need from you. You need to not go on my bed anymore.
You know, like, so I notice it huge in mine. But not with the Rat Terriers, right? Like, they’re like, oh, whatever.
They’re all lovey. And so it is interesting. But I noticed that with some breeds, and I think the Australian Labradoodle for sure is one of them, it does feel like they’re sort of asexual.
Like, they just don’t have a – gender neutral. There you go. They’re very much in the middle.
And I think explaining that’s really handy. And I have had people jump to the right dog for them. That was the wrong gender.
Susan Davis | 48:28
Oh, I’ve done that a lot.
Julie Swan | 48:30
When the temperament was right, you know. And so I love your explanation.
I think that’s one thing that breeders are always looking for more tools in is how to, how do I get the right dog in the right home when it’s not, as you say, I love that, checking the right boxes. I love that when you say, oh, it doesn’t check as many of your boxes.
Susan Davis | 48:48
And that’s exactly how we explain it to them. And we encourage them just move color and gender just down a little. Like, and sometimes when we do have people, I mean, because also we try to respect, obviously, that sometimes people just want what they want.
They’ve only had girl dogs. They will only consider a girl. And then I have a litter that has no girls or that doesn’t happen often, but or the one girl is the breeder pick or something.
And so I ask them right up front, will you consider a boy? This is even before we know what we have. Usually I’ll say, will you consider a boy if it’s the right temperament?
And if not, that means that you might have to wait for a future litter. So what’s more important to you, the timing or the parts? Presuming that it’s the right temperament, just the wrong parts that you were looking for.
Julie Swan | 49:49
I like that. It makes it very tangible for them, too, because people do kind of, I think, almost unnaturally get stuck on one thing or the other, thinking it means more than it does.
Susan Davis | 49:59
I think that that’s true, and I think it’s because that’s part of that is because there’s a lot of misinformation on the Internet, too, about, oh, like, all boy dogs are territorial and whatever.
Julie Swan | 50:13
And that’s just not the case.
Susan Davis | 50:17
Or another thing that I get a lot on boys is that they’re humpy. And I’m like, hey, you know, more spayed females hump than intact boys.
Like, I’ve seen it in my program, and every trainer I’ve ever worked with has said that, too. And I just think that there’s just some misinformation out there.
Julie Swan | 50:31
Absolutely. And with you, you’re always trying to find a flow that will help you explain. And it is a little dependent on your Ideal Puppy Buyer.
When you understand what they’re looking for, what kind of thing, you know, are they getting a designer dog? Because that’s important as an accessory. You know, do they have certain things?
Do they really need the dog for their kid to be supportive? You know, there’s just so many pieces. When we figure that out and cater to it, then we can figure out the best method for getting them what they need.
Susan Davis | 51:00
Right. And that makes the dog and the family more successful and satisfied with, you know, their choice. Their choice to work with us, their choice in the dog.
You know, ours occasionally will have a pretty rough, like, adolescence. It’s like six to 12. I tell people the first year is the hardest.
Six to 12 months is the absolute worst. And, you know, my kids had developmental stages that were just not my favorite. I mean, that’s just part of it.
But once they turn a corner, that’s when I start getting those really positive, whatever they’re. And they’ll say, you were right. Six to 12 months was the worst.
I’ll say, yeah, I’ve got a nine month old puppy. I’m raising right now that is making my hair fall out.
Julie Swan | 51:49
There you go right.
Susan Davis | 51:50
But I know at the end of the day, she’s going to be great. But I got to get her to that birthday.
Julie Swan | 51:56
Right before without killing her. Yeah, I get that.
Susan Davis | 51:58
And keep and keep the training going. You can’t miss that opportunity and continue socialization. There’s so many pieces to doing it well.
It’s taken me whatever 18, 19 years to learn all that I have. So for a new breeder, there’s a lot out there, you know, so find your people.
Julie Swan | 52:24
There’s many more resources. I think than when even I got started 10 years ago, there’s so many more resources. But there’s a lot of black holes that are not great resources.
You know, so I think you have to be choosy and just keep looking until you find what you’re looking for. I think you’ll find it inside the Dog Breeder Society. That would be my take. But, you know, I’m a little partial.
Susan Davis | 52:47
Yes, well, and I am partial because I think that what you provide for people, like there’s just so much even that I have learned since I joined. And, you know, I’ve been able to be, you know, somewhat supportive to some newer breeders in the group.
But you have so much content. It’s fantastic. Like, I wish I had all that 18 years ago.
Then maybe I wouldn’t, you know, have to be learning so much now the hard way. But it’s an unbelievable opportunity, which when I discovered you, I could not stop talking to the point that my loving husband, you know, is like, I get it. You love her.
I’ve just learned so much. It, you know, and that’s been this year.
Julie Swan | 53:46
It’s been so fun. It’s been so fun to have you. And I do love that because you’re so generous with your knowledge and you’re so sharing. And it’s just so it’s so nice.
A lot of people are like, oh, am I going to go in there? And like, you know, one, you’re not going to get yelled at. Nobody’s going to judge you for making money or for breeding.
But, you know, but then you have resources, like Susan with all her brilliance and experience to just come in and be like, yeah, that’s normal. Here’s what I did. And I love that.
Susan Davis | 54:11
Or here’s what I did wrong. A lot of my articles say, please learn from my mistakes. Like, you know, in my in my book that we’ve been doing since the beginning, I’ll say, here’s something I went through and I don’t want you to make that same mistake.
So here’s the information. You can do it.
Julie Swan | 54:32
If you’re going to share one thing to new breeders getting started. Maybe they have that hard first loss or anything. What would you what would you share?
Susan Davis | 54:43
Stick with it. It’s hard, but it is so rewarding. And there’s always more to learn.
Julie Swan | 54:51
Yeah, and it gets easier, right? I mean, like the changes you’re making now are much smaller than they were.
Susan Davis | 54:56
Yes, that is true. If it is your passion, it will come, it sounds like that movie. If you build it, they will come, the baseball movie.
But I have been so passionate about it from the beginning that even when my husband thought I was crazy, you know, but it was that important to me that he has supported me every step of the way. And that has made it easier. I know breeders who struggle in that area.
And, you know, the important thing, and this is something I want to teach my children, too. And, you know, people new, it’s not always going to be perfect, and it’s not always going to be pretty, but it can always be positive, somehow. A loss, a medical issue, something you can get past it.
You will be, you know, better and stronger for it. Your program will continue to improve as long as you stay true to why you’re in it. Know that.
And then you can grow from there. The growing just never stops. And I think that’s, you know, one thing.
There are some days and I’ve talked to you on a lot of these days, where I’m just tired. But I still can get so excited. Like we’re about to have our first litter since February.
And I can’t wait to hear the little sucking noises. Like it’s good. And I have a lot of dogs that live here.
And, you know, my mom lived here and I still have two kids at home. But I can’t wait to hear the little noises. That’s my favorite part.
Delivery is my favorite part. We livestream it to our waiting list families. So it makes it just kind of cool part of it.
But I don’t know. You’ll find your way. You just got to find your people and your community.
And you are exactly right. That’s probably my favorite thing. Besides the amount of content is that it is a nonjudgmental community.
And you don’t find that in dog breeding often. And that your community is really making a difference. And that’s my favorite part about it, I think.
Julie Swan | 57:18
Thanks, that’s so nice. Yeah. Well, that was the goal, right?
I was tired of getting told to drown puppies.
Susan Davis | 57:25
Yeah, that would have freaked me out. I just can’t. I don’t know.
But, you know, I’ve tube fed a puppy for three and a half weeks every two hours around the clock. Last year that happened. And I just heard from that family about how wonderful she’s doing.
Anyway, how much they love her. And she’s healed something in their family because they lost their really old Lab. And, you know.
Julie Swan | 57:59
Yeah, it makes it all worth it.
Susan Davis | 58:01
Yeah. And if I hadn’t done it, if we hadn’t put ourselves through that really, you know, because I’m old.
Every two hours, no sleep. I’m not really likable. But if we hadn’t saved that puppy, then they wouldn’t have her.
So I don’t know.
Julie Swan | 58:21
Yeah, it’s beautiful.
Susan Davis | 58:22
It is a special job.
Julie Swan | 58:24
It is. It is. I think that’s the best way to put it.
Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Susan Davis | 58:29
You’re welcome. Thank you for having me.
Julie Swan | 58:31
Great.
Susan Davis | 58:32
We’re so lucky to have you.
Julie Swan | 58:33
Where can people find you?
Susan Davis | 58:37
davisdoodles.com
Julie Swan | 58:41
I love it. All right.
Well, thank you so much, Susan. And I will talk to you soon.
Susan Davis | 58:39
You’re welcome.
