12 Days of Breeders – #3 – Cristine Lista of EverSummer Miniature American Shepherds

The 12 Days of Breeders is a series of interviews conducted with members of the Dog Breeder Society who are doing innovative, creative, and inspiring things in their dog breeding business.  In each of these interviews we cover challenges each breeder has encountered, and how they’ve overcome those challenges to find success in their breeding program.  Join me for all twelve of these interviews for inspiration, and countless actionable tips you can use to overcome (or avoid) challenges in your own dog breeding program!  You can check out all of the interviews in this series here.

Cristine Lista & EverSummer Miniature American Shepherds

Cristine recently fulfilled a dream she’s had for over 30 years, breeding her first litter. Learn how she prepared and planned for this or the last few years and how the process went. How she prepped to get ready for whelping and what to do when you feel unsure. She shares how she loves showing dogs and how she was able to build a network of supportive people to help her while she is a mom and has a career. She also shares how she prepared to market these puppies over the past year and how that helped her in this process and what she’d recommend for new breeders. 

Learn more about Cristine, Bluebell, and EverSummer Minis

Check out Bluebell on Instagram:

Transcript

Julie Swan | 0:00

Welcome to the Honest Dog Breeder podcast with me, your host Julie Swan. Where each week we dive in to discuss all things dog breeding so you can build a breeding business you love, producing dogs that fulfill their owners dreams. I believe you can have an honest dog breeder program that also pays the bills.

So throw those pods in your ears while you’re cleaning kennels, I’d love to join you. You guys are in for a treat today. Today we have Christine Lista of Every Summer Minis and you have Miniature American Shepherds.

Cristine Lista | 0:32

That’s right.

Julie Swan | 0:33

And the beloved Bluebell. Gosh, we love Bluebell.

You guys have to go see Bluebell on the show notes because she’s just the cutest dog. But anyway, Christine, tell us, you just got started, you recently had your first litter, but before we get into that, how did this come about? This has been on your radar for a long time.

Cristine Lista | 0:49

Yeah, so thank you for having me. This is such an honor really to be part of this podcast and yeah, my name is Cristine, I am a mom, I’m a professional, I’m a physician by training and I work a full-time job. But yes, I feel like I’ve always wanted to be, I think I decided I wanted to be a breeder when I was about 12 years old. And growing up we couldn’t have a dog at all, and it was hard because I didn’t want to have a dog, I wanted to have a phenomenal fancy dog.

My first breed that I loved was Collies, right, like Lassie, he’s such a classic, but I wanted to have that kind of dog and we couldn’t. So my parents, not to crush my dreams, they didn’t want to do that, so they allowed me to start going to dog shows. My dad actually signed up for Dog Magazine when I was 12 years old.

Julie Swan | 1:48

You could get like a subscription?

Cristine Lista | 1:50

Subscription and this is back in Brazil, so slightly different than here, but I would get my monthly magazine and my, you know, teenager growing up you have, I am millennial, right, so at the time we would have like all the walls and like some people would have their Hollywood stars, well I had dogs, all my walls are like full of dogs. So I started going to dog shows, my parents, you know, would take me to dog shows and with that I visited kennels growing up.

My mom would take me to kennels, there was a kennel for Great Danes which became also a breed that I loved. The Argentinian Ambassador, I was living in Brasilia at the time, so going to kennels and that became like I want to do this one day. It took a while, it took a long time, so I think that’s how it came about.

I decided I wanted to breed dogs and start showing and all that kind of thing when I was about 12 years old.

Julie Swan | 2:55

Yeah, so it wasn’t just getting a pet dog, like you needed this like cream of the crop, awesome dog. Could you just chime in for two seconds, because you are from Brazil and is it much different, like your impression of breeding down there, does it have a different culture to it or is it different?

Cristine Lista | 3:16

I don’t know if it is, I don’t think it’s that much of a difference. I remember going into kennels with over 20 dogs and I think we have that such a variety, right, like there are kennels that are small, kennels that are huge, and this Argentinian lady, like the Ambassador, she had 12 Great Danes, one room for each Great Dane. She had a pool in her house, like it was different.

There was a lot of variety, there was a lot of different personalities in breeding. But I always found it cheerful, I always find it supportive, and I was a kid, so people wanted to kind of, you know, share the joys, but maybe, I don’t know, I think in America there is all kinds of variety and people that are in breeding for different reasons and different breeds, but yeah, there’s a lot of variety.

Julie Swan | 4:17

All right, so okay, so 12 years old, you decide you want to do this, can’t quite have a dog yet, or whatever the case is, or the one you want, moving forward. So then life gets crazy, right? You got married, you went to school, you did all the things.

Cristine Lista | 4:32

Yeah, I went to school, you know, school for me was seven years, then residency, and we moved quite a lot. My husband is a teacher and he’s in education, so we moved a lot. I moved to the U.S. because my husband was here doing his master’s program, and we met in Argentina. My husband came here, I’m from Brazil, went to medical school in Argentina, lots of countries, lots of places, and clearly there was no opportunities for breeding, right?

Julie Swan | 5:02

In that time, yeah, you were moving so much.

Cristine Lista | 5:09

We moved here, and we moved quite a lot. Both of us are studying, both of us were in school for a long time.

My husband was in school, like just PhD with all residency and stuff, it took him 11 years to finish. So it was, you know, a lot of that time we were counting money, and like doing all the finance crazy, so we could finish schooling, and then we decided, oh, let’s just have kids, and then life gets super busy with kids, and jobs, and moving around. So we moved a few times.

I lived in Arizona, I lived in Georgia, I lived in New York, lived in Arizona, lived in Hawaii before moving to Reno, so we did not even have a house of our own. We bought a house, but then we moved, and you know, it was just all this kind of thing.

Julie Swan | 6:02

Were you always trying to get into breeding, or did you know it just wasn’t the time?

Cristine Lista | 6:07

No, I feel my life was out of control in early childhood, and you know, as a starting professionally, and starting my life as a physician here, plus having kids, and my husband going through his whole education, it was just not even possible. Right. But when we decided to finally buy a house, I’m like, this is the time, we need to talk.

Julie Swan | 6:39

Is this when you finally revealed your dream to your husband?

Cristine Lista | 6:42

My husband knew, my husband knew I loved dogs, he knew like, you know, growing up, and all the things. To be fair, I really think, you know, in a relationship, we always support each other’s dreams and desires. My husband is into airplanes, so he has his own kind of unusual dreams and hobbies that he has.

So I think the conversation came about both of us desiring, like, this is the time for us to buy a house and accommodate our dreams, which are airplanes and dogs. Very normal. We’re like, we need a house that we can have those two things.

When we were buying a house, we had those two things in mind. But my husband, I think, could live without a dog. And I think looking back, I don’t think he can imagine his life without a dog now.

Julie Swan | 7:40

That’s cool.

Cristine Lista | 7:41

But when we didn’t have a dog, he could totally live his life without a dog. And I was so desperate, like, I wanted to go into breeding.

And I gave my husband 100% permission to choose what will be the breed. And I got to the point, just like, it can be any breed, any breed you want. I will let you have full control of, like, deciding the breed, because I wanted to breed no matter what.

I could breed, like, I’m open, like, I will just breed any breed you want. And he took the time, and a good couple of weeks to research and to do a lot of in depth. And he always kept going back to Australian Shepherd.

I didn’t know at the time that Miniature American Shepherds existed. It’s a newer breed it’s a breed that started in 2016 with AKC. So it’s much newer than my 12 year old person that I knew the breeds.

And that’s how I ended up finding the breed of choice. And also getting my husband on board with the plan like this is, you know, the breed. And it’s funny, because I think the Miniature American Shepherds is exactly how my husband’s personality is, adventurous and go, go, go, always ready for fun.

And, you know, I would have to love this breed, because I love my husband. That’s how he is, you know. But I chose my breed, because my husband basically wanted that breed.

It’s his favorite breed.

Julie Swan | 9:22

It’s such an interesting thing, that you release all of that into his hands, and let him pick. But like, what a smart move, because in the end, he can take ownership of the fact that he kind of picked the breed.

Cristine Lista | 9:37

And right, I think it was, it was good. If I would pick a breed, it will be a Great Dane. And to be honest, that will be wrong.

At that time, you know, it would not be ideal. I am so pleased it turned out great. Because in the type of life that we have, lifestyle is such a big thing in breeding, right?

The lifestyle that we have is always on the go. And this breed that we have is very versatile. Like, it can go with you pretty much anywhere.

The size is nice. So we can take the dog with us anywhere we go. Camping, snow, you know, like skiing, whatever you go, the dog can go with you.

And that became part of our identity as a family. The dog is at the school with me doing library. I volunteer sometimes, you know, at the school, like all the kids know my dog by name.

So this is huge.

Julie Swan | 10:38

Yeah, it’s perfect. Yeah, she really just fits right in with everything. And for people who aren’t familiar, the miniature American Shepherd is very much sort of like a smaller Australian Shepherd, correct?

Cristine Lista | 10:48

Correct is, you know, 30 pounds for like a framework is they are about 30 to 40 pounds, depending females and males there is, you know, so there is a smaller version of the Australian Shepherd, but the colors are similar. They have like, you know, different colors and they are kind of fun in that sense, for sure. Very smart, very smart.

Julie Swan | 11:09

Easy to train.

Cristine Lista | 11:18

Easy to train. And they can train you as well if you’re not careful.

Julie Swan | 11:21

Yeah, so that worked out perfect. Okay, cool. So you decide you got the breed now your husband picks it out.

And now you’re moving forward. And so then what you take over to find a breeder.

Cristine Lista | 11:29

Then moving forward, we started researching breeders, local breeders. And then once we found, we decided like, oh, since then you start adding up dreams, right? Like, oh, since we’re going to have a smart breed, can we have a dog that may do, you know, hospital work and therapy work, maybe take the dog to schools and everything.

So when we kind of decided like, okay, we want to breed that want to do so much, I want to breed the dog, it has to be a female dog. And then, you know, you have to start conversations with breeders about becoming a breeder, which, you know, is a different conversation. We finally found a breeder that is local.

She is a phenomenal person that was willing to work with me. And it took about almost another year to wait for the puppy because then you have one litter coming and you are looking for certain things and for a show dog and a breeding dog. So it took it took months to finally select the dog.

But she, my breeder is local. I think it was great because having a person nearby was incredibly helpful in the journey of becoming a breeder myself. So I felt very supported by my breeder.

Julie Swan | 12:51

And she’s within an hour, right? Like to give people an idea.

Cristine Lista | 12:54

Correct, correct.

Julie Swan | 12:55

Nice. Nice spacing. Yeah.

Cristine Lista | 12:58

Mm hmm. So that was that was good. And getting to know her, it was when we actually learned about the miniature American Shepherds, because we were initially looking for Australian Shepherds.

But a lot of the Australian Shepherd people in my area would not have an Australian Shepherd for therapy. And as we are funneling down, she had miniature American Shepherds. And that’s how we kind of like, oh, that’s cool, because the size, it’s easier to transport the dog with, you know, kind of a little smaller dog.

But and it’s still kind of the same, I think the similar fun there, there’s a lot of similarities between the two breeds. So we, we decided like, okay, this is going to be our dog. And so Bluebell is my lovely Blue Merle dog with blue eyes.

She’s the sweetest dog. So from the first time from the beginning, we knew we’re going to breed her in a two year period. So there was a lot of waiting around, you wait for the dog, then we wanted to do the show route.

So then you have to send the dog to the show ring. And if any breeder has done that, you know, there’s a lot of uncertainties, it can take some more time than you think. Sometimes there is ups and downs and shows and you have no control.

Right? So but we were very fortunate, my breeder let me use the same handler that she had phenomenal, you know, professional handler nearby. So our journey has a lot of other people, right?

Like, I think breeding is kind of a community. I see that. I felt like I need a big community around me, starting with my breeder, but then you go into the show world, there is a lot of other people, you know, and building up from there.

Kind of surround yourself with people that are like minded. And then when things have started to become more real, it’s how I started looking for books and like I need to learn more about it. And that’s how I found you.

And that’s how I found it was like, okay, I need more information. And I didn’t find any books that were what I was looking for in terms of information to start a breeding program.

Julie Swan | 15:20

You were looking more for the business side of it?

Cristine Lista | 15:32

Business and also kind of like the framework of like step one, this is 123 and first do this, and then do that.

Julie Swan | 15:36

That was good. No, it was so much fun talking to you, even in our first call, because I was like, oh, you’ve got all the things figured out. Like, it was cool. You had a lot planned out.

You put a lot of work into your program, even before we met, you had looked at so much stuff. You really knew your breed. You knew the show world.

You knew all these things. It was, it was really something.

Cristine Lista | 15:56

It’s been fun. I think, to me, this is such a meaningful thing. This is something I always wanted to do.

And I put my heart on this project more than other projects I’ve done in my life. But this is something super dear to my heart. I always wanted to do, you know, to do well and to do it to kind of have the same joys that a dog can provide to another family, right?

It’s just like this magic. Oh, sorry, Bluebell is being a mom. 

Julie Swan | 16:31

Got things to say, let me out.

Cristine Lista | 16:33

Yes. Yeah, no.

And she is being so protective. It’s almost uplifting to see how much she has changed as a mom and protecting her babies. She is very, very protective for sure.

Anyway.

Julie Swan | 16:49

Yeah. Going back to show you had said, and you were telling me a little bit about this in our prep call, how, you know, you had even gone to shows without Bluebell to learn and to go to nationals. Can you tell us a little bit about what you were looking for, going by yourself, what your goals were, your networking goals, that kind of thing?

Cristine Lista | 17:11

Yeah. So I, as I said, I had a handler with Bluebell because I’m working full time. I couldn’t be every weekend showing her.

So I was able to go to a few shows that she was showing. And, you know, the first shows I’ve been, my dog was on the show ring and it was exciting for that. But then I think it’s important, when you choose your breed to kind of really understand your breed well.

And by that, I mean, what really excellence looks like in your breed? What is the movement of the dogs? It’s structurally the, you know, like the breed standards, what are they?

And one of the best ways to immerse yourself in your breed is to attend one of the national events. Every breed has, you know, a national events once a year. So I decided to go to nationals, more looking into learning and also networking.

And then you start asking questions. There’s so many questions, right? Like so many things.

I remember there was the first year I went, I went without my dog because you had to fly, right? So doing the accommodations to take my dog, it will be like, I won’t be able to go and come back to work. So I decided, you know what?

I think the learning is so huge. They had a genetics talk. There is a new disease kind of like that people are figuring out this is a new breed, a new awareness of a disease that I wanted to learn more about it.

So there was a lot, a component of education in the national, at nationals, that was huge for me. And then when you start attending and you see what other people are asking and think, and what other things your breed can do, there was the agility events, all the performance events. So it was, and herding as well, right?

Because miniature American Shepherds are a herding breed. So there was a lot in herding and you meet amazing people, inspiring people, for sure. There are amazing stories really.

And it’s a lot of fun. So you meet other handlers, other dogs, and you can understand better what you’re going for. Like this is the, you know, the top 20 dogs in America are looking like this and kind of have an idea of what you want to accomplish with your own program.

Julie Swan | 19:45

Yeah. So it showed you basically all the options of what you could do and then what excellence looks like in all those areas.

Cristine Lista | 19:52

Yeah. And I also didn’t, I don’t have a stud, right. And then to me, I also wanted to kind of network and see what I was looking for in terms of complementing my dog and have that kind of community.

Like I will need a stud. At that time it didn’t, Bluebell was not ready to be bred, but like that was part of the process of networking to find a stud, a nice stud for her. And yeah, no, I think Nationals was amazing for me.

I’ve been to two years actually without my dogs, without her. Hopefully this year I’m going with one of the puppies. We’ll see.

I don’t know, but it has been a lot of fun. So I think Nationals more than dog shows, dog shows I’ve attended without her as well, but national events with the breed where it’s pure, like your breed, there is huge opportunity for networking, and understanding your breed, and asking questions for sure.

Julie Swan | 20:53

Yeah. It feels kind of like going to the Olympics for your breed. It’s pretty neat.

Cristine Lista | 20:56

Correct. That’s right. So that has been great. And depending on where you are, right, for us, Nationals has been in Missouri. So it’s quite a long way to travel by airplane and coming back.

So if Nationals were closer to me, probably it will be slightly different. But when it’s like that far away, going with your dog or many dogs, people are taking two weeks off, you know, like it takes about a week just to travel there, plus a week there and then come back. So it’s a bigger commitment.

And I decided just like, I’m just going to go and learn. I’m still learning, but definitely recommend.

Julie Swan | 21:40

That makes sense. Okay. So one thing that I didn’t know though, is you, a lot of breeders, you know, they get started, they get their breeding dogs, they do all this research on the breed, the dogs, the puppies have a litter.

And then they’re kind of like, oh crap, like I need to sell these and have a business and do the other things that kind of comes later. How did you come to the conclusion that you needed to work on that stuff now? Did you see something out there?

Cristine Lista | 22:04

I think it’s really about like having a roadmap, right? Like what are the steps? And I did the opposite.

I actually started working with you, I think for about a year before I even had, I’ve been working with you for more than a year, I think now, but before I had a dog, so I had the opposite problem of what people have. I’m building a website, but I don’t have any puppies. I don’t have, you know, like I don’t have any pictures of puppies because I never had a puppy before.

So it’s kind of weird to do it that way. But to me, I feel like those were things I could do and not have to worry about later. It was more like a foundation.

I understood like this will eventually have to be done. And it makes sense to me to do it now because I need to wait for my dog to get a little older and things like that. So all of that was done, gosh, months ahead.

Julie Swan | 23:06

Yeah. And can you share with everybody, like the things that you did get done? Because you tackled a ton of stuff in the past year.

Cristine Lista | 23:11

I did. So I did, I started with like the regular call and trying to identify what will be even like my customer, ideal customer or buyer. I did that.

And that really helped to clarify a lot of things for me. And then building up social media about like, and I love how you put it out there. It’s about like a story.

What is life with her and share a little bit. And I look back to those posts and it’s just very nice to look back like, Oh, that was winter last year. But I had a little bit of social media presence.

It was not like a huge follow crowd that I had, but it was there. I feel like the people that are following me are people that randomly meet Bluebell, at a gym, at like my neighborhood or things like that. But it has been fun to have that foundation.

And then I did a whole marketing session with you. And we built up the website from the piloting program that you offered, which was empowering to me because you basically walked me and one of the other super fun newbie breeders that are growing up her business into this journey of building up the website and all the marketing things, branding. Branding took a while for me. It took months, just branding alone, finding the colors, finding the fonts and the logo.

It took a while. I had someone else working on branding for me, but back and forth, it was a meaningful process. And I think having the time to take the time and actually do it, do it well and do it one time, it was very good.

It felt peaceful once I have not to just focus on whelping.

Julie Swan | 25:11

Yeah right, you had a plan already going for it. I think we should tell them a little bit about the backstory on EverSummer Minis because I just love, I love how you came up with this EverSummer and what it means.

Cristine Lista | 25:23

So EverSummer, I’m from Brazil and we live in Reno. We have all four seasons here. It’s beautiful.

But I find that the heat and summer is really my happy place for sure. I love when it’s summer. I love when it comes and I desire it to last forever in my life.

That’s how I grew up. One season forever and it’s always hot. It’s always nice.

So EverSummer is just kind of like a happy, it’s my happy place. It reminds me of Brazil. That’s where I go.

And I don’t feel like it’s a name that people use a lot, but it’s a name that is meaningful to me that is a little bit of who I am. This is where I came from. I come from a place where it’s summer all year long.

So that’s pretty much the EverSummer.

Julie Swan | 26:24

And I feel like your dogs bring that joy, the way that you feel good about that warm summer weather. Your dogs bring that to people.

Cristine Lista | 26:33

And they are pretty much like that, right? Like even in winter, I think these dogs are built for winter as well. They do amazing in snow.

They have double coats and probably struggle a little bit if it is too, too hot, but they love the adventure and water, going on the water, and going here, and going there, and like always on the go for sure. So yeah, it’s a little bit of who they are too. They go camping and adventure and go, go, go.

Julie Swan | 27:00

I think it’s so perfect. I just love it.

Cristine Lista | 27:02

So that’s how, that’s how the name, but finding the name can take a while.

Julie Swan | 27:08

Yeah.

Cristine Lista | 27:08

Or at least for me, it took a while to find a name that kind of encompassed what you are. And it was helpful to go through because I found my name after going through my ideal customer, like who do I want to sell to? And all those kinds of components really helped to narrow down.

And I’m very, very happy with the name of the kennel, even though it’s so new to me, right? That I’m starting to use it now.

Julie Swan | 27:34

I love it. I think it came together so nice. You guys’ colors are so fun too.

It’s kind of like an ice cream shop.

Cristine Lista | 27:40

It’s almost, yeah, that’s what the concept is like a raspberry mint or pistachio color.

Julie Swan | 27:47

Pistachio ice cream. Yeah. I think it’s great. So all in all, I know when we worked together, you, and you did so much work.

I don’t really even want to like, even take a smidge of credit, but you got your branding done after the ideal customer, right? All built in that. Then you moved into, and you also worked in Kit now, right?

ConvertKit. And how was it?

Cristine Lista | 28:11

I started ConvertKit in, and I think, I think things were slowly building. I started ConvertKit at the same time that I was doing my Instagram more or less at the same time. But I had, I don’t know, five people on my email list, right?

Like three people. And it started to build very, very slow. And, but at the same time, I was there learning the mechanics, right?

It took me a while, for example, to understand templates. And I was trying to create a brand new template every single time I was going to create a broadcast. So there was a lot of mechanics that it was helpful to have more time.

But I started ConvertKit about maybe six, seven months ago.

Julie Swan | 29:01

Something like that.

Cristine Lista | 29:05

And, and then just recently, I added HoneyBook as I’m starting to get closer to breeding. And then you have to think about contracts. And I had another whole entire session with you about contracts and building up contract that is unique to my program.

And I think every program is slightly different. What to do with, you know, if you have someone that wants to breed versus someone that doesn’t want to breed. And that was another piece of the roadmap.

And when all of that, which I think is more like the marketing and the business component was done, I could really change gears and focusing on whelping and, you know, progesterone testing and all the things that goes with the actual breeding without having to kind of really shift focus to marketing.

Julie Swan | 30:02

Yeah, I think so too. I think like in a perfect world, the order you did things is what I wish everyone could do. Like if I could just pause the podcast for a second and say, listen to what Cristine did.

Cristine Lista | 30:12

I don’t, I don’t know it, but it’s hard to, because then you don’t have anything, right? Like there is this balance, I think, because there is a struggle. I, for example, even with posts of my dog, I only had my dog.

I didn’t have any puppy. I now have puppies that are six days old today, but it for a long while, I’m like, I wish I had a puppy. I wish I would have that to share, but you don’t.

So there’s always a balance. I think when you do it opposite, then you would have a ton of that. You know, I think to me, and this is kind of like one of the messages, is enjoy the journey because dog breeding is very similar to having kids.

I don’t think you can say there is a perfect time for this, this, and that. I think you will find the need and adjust and it will be beautiful. It will be uniquely beautiful to you.

Julie Swan | 31:17

Right.

Cristine Lista | 31:17

You know, and this is an encouragement. This is how I did.

It worked well for me because I didn’t have any choice, right? Like I didn’t, I could do this in the, as I was waiting, there was a lot of waiting. My life is full of waiting moments.

Like there was a lot of wait, a lot of pause. And I try to focus in what I can do as opposed to what I cannot do right now. This is what I can do.

And that worked well. It was great. And I’m happy, but I don’t want to sound like this is the only way there is, there is no one way.

There is many ways of growing, but I find it was really important to me having a framework. This is a step one. Then you do this and do that and do that.

So having all that blocks, like I need to do this and this and this, it was really helpful to have it clear. So when I come and talk to you, you help to organize like a personalized schedule for me, like, okay, this is what we can do. So if anybody, you know, anybody out there that has a program having that sequence, here is where I am.

And this is what I need to do, when that sequence is clear, then your life is so much easier.

Julie Swan | 32:34

Yeah, I think so. I think what I, what I want to point out is that a lot of breeders seem to forget that there is marketing they could be doing. They could be building an Instagram following and they could be working on a website.

And I don’t expect you to have a 40 page website when you first start breeding, you know, but you should have a contact page, have a picture, have a page about your dog, you know, and just get this stuff out there so that you’re familiar with the builder. So you’re familiar with what kind of schedule you’re going to post. So you know how to use Reels because that learning curve of getting comfortable with that stuff just seems to be so long.

Cristine Lista | 33:08

It takes, it takes a while. It definitely does.

I’m still learning. I don’t even think I arrived, you know, I’m still, you know, I’m still on the journey of improving all of that. I don’t think even though I have some, but there is so much room for growth.

And that said, it’s enough where I think is like the done is better than perfect. It’s not perfect, but it’s done, you know, and it can, we can adjust and grow from there. So I think that’s kind of the message, sometimes I feel like it’s so easy to get distracted in breeding.

I feel like this week I have not done anything, but enjoy puppies. Right. And I needed to do so many other things, but it’s so easy to get caught up into all the things I need to do.

And then you don’t do anything.

Julie Swan | 34:03

Yeah. Oh, that’s so common because there’s like a list of 40,000 things in your head that you want to do for your breeding program or you want to work on. And then it’s like hard to just stop and pick one and work on it.

Cristine Lista | 34:15

Yeah. So it’s just, it’s exactly like that. It’s just pick one thing.

And if you have a sequence that makes sense for your program, where you are, it’s easier to come out of that. Oh my gosh, I have so much stuff to do, but this is what I’m going to do and give yourself, I gave myself many, many, many times a deadline. By two weeks, this has to be done, you know, give a, not a crazy tight timeline, but kind of like a real goal.

I want my website to be done in three months in like the next 90 days. And we’re going to do this. And I find mini goals help.

Julie Swan | 34:57

Smaller ones along the way, you mean like a mini goal?

Cristine Lista | 34:58

Yeah. Mini goals.

Otherwise it’s just a lot, but you, I think having the breeding society has helped to put a lot of framework around like, Oh, there is that. I was not even thinking about that. Oh yeah, sure.

Like, what is that? You know, it’s when you see the whole entire, say the MasterClasses you go and you can say, okay, out of the 25 things I am doing one, you know, but then you do one, then get that one out of your way. I remember, and I’m still working, for example, on, I think is the, maybe the very first, first or second masterclass, there was something about budgeting and like, I’m still trying to finish that, you know, like, but when you see, when you see what is ideal, then, you know, like, okay, I have that one to focus or this ones, but always have a mini goal of growth.

It helps.

Julie Swan | 35:54

No, it’s cool. I think it’s great. And did you find that getting the goal, it just kind of, well, maybe you can share your secret.

Because one thing I noticed about you, is you set aside time to work on things. I think that’s one area, a lot of breeders struggle. Is there, do you have any tips on how you accomplish that?

Cristine Lista | 36:11

I think I have windows of time when most people don’t. I work nights, I work on a night job.

So a lot of time I would have time at three in the morning, right? Like at two in the morning and I’m not even home. So I think when you have, when you know what you can do, say in your computer and you know what you can do in your phone, right?

And then the time, what I try to say is like the minimum time is 10 minutes. I have 10 minutes, you have 10 minutes, everybody does. So if I have 10 minutes, actually put in like the timer and go and do it for 10 minutes.

And most of the time you go for 10 minutes and you start, it’s just the energy that it takes to start something that keeps you going.

Julie Swan | 37:03

And so like, at least just say, all right, I’ll just work on this for 10 minutes. If I do at least 10 minutes, I can call it good.

Cristine Lista | 37:09

At least 10 minutes a day. If ideally I would love an hour and a half, right? But if I did, what you can do in 10 minutes when you’re working on something, what can you do?

There is no excuses. I’m not going to do it. And it becomes, and this applies for exercise or for anything else, right?

Like what can you do that is so minimal that doesn’t require a lot of effort that if you can just start to the activity itself will kind of, I call this propel. It was just kind of be easier to keep going.

Julie Swan | 37:45

No, that totally makes sense. I think that’s great because you can. So could you give us some things that you were able to do in just 10 minutes when you were working on your program?

Cristine Lista | 37:52

You can. So for example, you can organize your pictures in 10 minutes. You can edit your pictures.

I will give you an example. If you mentioned, hey, I’m waiting, I need 10 more minutes. I just did my Thanksgiving post, right?

Like I go on Canva, like, oh, okay. I’m here sitting here. Go on Canva.

I’ll just upload a picture and do like a happy Thanksgiving done. That’s you can do in 10 minutes. You can do a lot in marketing in 10 minutes, a lot.

You can also lose 10 minutes with nothing, right? Like just scrolling on Facebook, you can just totally lose 10 minutes. I try to not be on social media.

I had to start a timer for Instagram for me. So I limit my time on Instagram. I don’t go, otherwise I will get lost 10 minutes completely.

You can read a book in 10 minutes, right? You can listen to a podcast, 10 minutes. So having, for example, having a podcast at all times, you finish one and then you already know which one is the next one, I think is an important tip you can have.

You can, I can look up dogs from nationals in 10 minutes. I just go to my pictures. It’s like, yeah, I like that one.

You know, like I can track stuff, but there’s a lot of things people, if you change the question, right? Like what can I do in 10 minutes? You will find a lot.

A lot of things.

Julie Swan | 39:26

That makes sense. No, I think it’s something, it’s a strong suit of yours that I noticed. And I appreciate you sharing that.

So, all right, so let’s go back. So now you’ve got everything together. You got your kennel name, your branding, your customer, everything’s kind of sorted, figured out.

You picked your stud. And so then she got bred, you had a nice live cover. And then how did you prepare now for the whelping?

That’s what makes so many new breeders nervous. What’d you do?

Cristine Lista | 39:55

Oh, whelping. This, I think whelping, and I have to confidently say is probably my favorite part so far. I think whelping has this super cool aspect of more medical stuff.

I, by training, I’m family medicine by training. So I deliver babies and like real human babies as part of my training. I don’t currently deliver babies right now, but I delivered them in residency and training.

So kind of, it evokes this fun side of a new life coming to the world. And there is a lot of similar things and a lot of different things. So for me preparing for whelping, I have no experience on dogs, right?

So I had to do some research and talk to other breeders about what they do in terms of preparation. So I did find a, like an online course on whelping and I took it’s about like eight hours. And I find like, this is just the way I feel like I personally learn.

It’s just so like medical ingrained in my brain, but I found it important to know like, okay, this is the bigger picture and where I am in terms of the preparation. But for me, it was researching the whelping box and finding, you helped me a few times like, Hey, where can I do like pads and pee pads to put on the whelping box? So trying to get a sense of the structure because whelping, you will have some things for structure that you don’t have normally, right?

Like you will need a whelping box. You will need a space. You will need to set that up.

But also there was a component of more, what am I going to do if something goes wrong? Am I ready to handle resuscitating a newborn puppy if I need to, or how can I know if my mama is in trouble? Right?

So all those kinds of things, like I didn’t know. And I have to say that through the whole time, I still have to remind myself, dogs are not like humans. They are meant to deliver their puppies most of the time alone, and they can do just fine.

So this is kind of helpful, right? Because it’s different. It’s a big difference from a human side.

Most females will not deliver completely by themselves, but a dog can, if they are in a situation, a dog can. So preparing to me was that component of structure stuff, like stuff that I need to buy. What do I need to buy, right?

Building up that list of what do I need to buy and having more knowledge, understanding of the process of what can go wrong and what do I need to do. And with that, then buying the stuff that I needed for an emergency kit. And to me, that was super fun because I felt like going to the hospital, like this is my rapid response kit.

This is all the stuff that I need. So it was really, really cool for me to get that done. But I feel like once I finished that course, and I kind of got the basic stuff that I needed to buy and invest to have it, I have to say, I did not use one single thing like of my emergency kit.

My dog delivered beautiful. She delivered amazingly. I did help her.

There was some clamps involved, and I did help her with some stuff out of the fun. But she would have been totally capable of doing by herself. Being there for her was super, super meaningful.

But that’s how I ended up preparing. And then you can switch gears and just enjoy yourself. It was really, really, really cool to do the whole whelping part.

It was phenomenal.

Julie Swan | 43:58

I think you said yesterday too, it was this beautiful merge of this hobby and thing you’ve wanted to do for so long, and all of your medical background.

Cristine Lista | 44:07

Whelping is pretty much, I think the most clear, when you go to a dog show, there is no medical stuff, right? Unless someone is sick and you have to help. But whelping has this component of, it’s kind of nice to me that here I am with all this medical background that I can actually apply to my hobby.

And there’s this kind of intersection of profession and hobby together that was super cool.

Julie Swan | 44:36

Oh, that’s awesome. So all in all, it was nowhere near as crazy as you thought it would be.

Cristine Lista | 44:42

So I had, you read so much and there is reality, right? So I think a lot of people will say a dog can take an hour to deliver. So I knew I was having, we did x-rays, I knew I was having six puppies and I was expecting six hours, right?

In my brain, like I was expecting six hours. Well, the whole entire, after she started delivering from the first puppy to the end, it was about two hours. And I was surprised by that.

I was expecting more, longer. I was expecting different, that it will be more, I don’t want to say the word pain, but it will be more like labor, you know, humans are different. So it was like, not much of an effort for her.

Not really, but it was really nice to be with her during the process and, you know, all the excitement, cause you don’t know what you’re getting. And like, you know, so curious about like how the puppies will look like. Not all breeds are like that, but my breed, you know, have different colors, different things, and every single puppy is different from each other.

So it was so fun. It was so great. Super, super great.

But I will mention this because I do work, right? And I knew my dog was going to deliver probably on my week off. I work seven days and I rest seven days.

I did have people on call for me if for any reason, other people that I know that are in breeding that could come help out if I needed. And I think that is also part of the bigger community. If you have a breeder that you know, that is around you and people that are in this closer by, especially if you are not home at all times, you know, have those people.

And I had people that told me in the middle of the night, if you have a question, call me, right. And having that is really huge to feel peace. If I have a question.

I didn’t call anybody. I didn’t call anybody, but I, I knew I could. And this is, it’s a gift of community.

It is the gift of supporting each other that I felt blessed by. I am the newbie. I am the, you know, like the person starting no experience, but I know people with a lot of experience that could, you know, extend a word of encouragement or wisdom if I need to.

Julie Swan | 47:22

Right. No, that’s so true. And for people thinking out there, I don’t have anybody around me that breeds my breed.

It doesn’t have to be the same breed that network can extend to whoever.

Cristine Lista | 47:34

I’ll give an example for my, one of the nurse practitioners that work with me. She started breeding when she was 11 years old and she was different breed it’s Collies, but she was one of one of the people. Then I had a Labrador, a Samoyed.

So there was different breeders, different breeds. I think most breeders, they do share the understanding of how important is whelping and, you know, and supporting each other. So not the same breed, not necessarily the same breed, but yeah.

Other breeds too.

Julie Swan | 48:11

Yeah, no, that’s really, really good. It’s really good. All right. So tell us a little bit for those of us that haven’t yet had a litter, but maybe have had children of their own.

What’s the major differences human to dog?

Cristine Lista | 48:23

Oh my goodness. There’s a lot. A lot.

I think OB is let me start with is when, if there is a problem with OB and there is a baby that dies or a mom that is in deep trouble and dies, the consequence is just really incredibly devastating to everybody involved. And because of that, the level of, the level of careful you have, you know, you have to have is different because, you know, in dogs, we don’t want to lose any puppy, but if you lose a puppy it’s not the same. And in humans, you know, normally you have one baby, it takes, it can take hours to get that one baby out.

So some of the complications that can happen, you can have a shoulder dystocia, you can have a umbilical cord that comes before and you have to act pretty quickly if there is a problem. And ideally some of the problems that are not very common, but can happen, you need to act very, very quickly. Sometimes you don’t even have time to call EMS and, you know, and baby can suffer or mom can suffer.

There is a lot of people that deliver babies at home safely and fine. Most people that are healthy will have a healthy delivery, but problems can happen. And if problems do happen, they can happen pretty fast.

And I think that, that to me, having that background, it’s just puts a little bit more thoughtfulness about how is that translating into the dogs. Dogs can also have problems, but I think there is, from what I can read, and I’m not a specialist in any way, but from what I can read, there is a higher chance for a dog to die in a C-section than dying whelping at home, which is comforting to me to understand, like, okay, it is for most of the dogs, and there is some breeds that are special in terms of C-section, but for most dogs, most breeds, naturally whelping is the best for them.

Julie Swan | 50:39

Is that opposite for humans? Like the risk of losing someone in C-section is lower?

Cristine Lista | 50:45

It depends on the problem. It depends on the problem. I think in humans, there is plenty, it’s more complicated because after one C-section, a lot of people will go to C-section depending on the position that the baby is, right?

Dogs, doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. But if you have a baby in certain positions, it will require more skill to deliver if you’re doing a natural delivery versus a C-section.

So I think it’s just hard to compare. I think it’s hard to compare, but every time there is a procedure, and this goes by any procedures that involves bleeding and cutting, and C-section is one of them, there is a higher chance for infection, bleeding, other risks. So it’s virtually, it’s always a risk, right, that is out there.

And I think Mother Nature is intelligent, is designed, is intentionally designed to accomplish things. And even though not perfect, but dogs were meant to deliver naturally, humans too. We, you know, most people can.

Granted, there is a lot of variations and a lot of things, so I’m not advocating for one thing or the other, but just having the careful mindset to be ready, to have some kind of knowledge. If you have to, a near-death puppy, can you resuscitate that puppy? Can you figure out what’s going on?

You might have a genetic problem. You might have, you know, different things. So what to do if you do have a problem and have a plan beforehand?

I find it helps to take the panic mode, the anxiety out of the situation. That can be pretty stressful. I don’t take, I don’t take it for granted that every single dog delivery will be a super joyful moment.

You might have a situation that is difficult. And as well as in medicine, you don’t want to face a difficult situation of life and death or disease without preparation and knowing your steps. Like, this is going to be the next step.

This is going to be the next step. So knowledge helps for that. And having an idea, I think is an idea of what to do.

It really, to me, it really lowers the stress.

Julie Swan | 53:12

Yeah. So ultimately you said, wow, like all these things could happen. I don’t really know.

But if you realize here’s all the potential common problems or less common problems, and then what you did is you, you thought through those. Okay, if I ran into this, what would I do? If I ran into this, what would I do?

So you had a plan already in your brain before the whelping ever started. Right. Now you could go into it and say, okay, I’m ready for it.

And then you can just enjoy it.

Cristine Lista | 53:38

Right. And this might be just the way my brain works, but I find having an idea is good because if not, and you encounter something is completely unexpected, then most of us have anxiety, right? Like what, what, what do I do now?

Julie Swan | 53:58

You need to do something really fast, like, oh no, what do I do? And that’s not great.

Cristine Lista | 54:01

That’s not great. So but yeah, so just being ready. And a lot of times when you start researching, you will find very basic stuff.

One of the things that I would not be so thoughtful, for example, make sure your dog is drinking a lot of water and she doesn’t get dehydrated as she’s panting away pre-labor, like have different ways for her to have water, have available sources of glucose and calcium like ice cream. I will not know. It’s just such a basic concept, but yogurt and things like that to help your dog to be healthy through the delivery.

Don’t get dehydrated in between. Right. So even from that sense, I think knowledge, when you read and like immerse yourself a little bit is important because you can prevent.

And prevention is really ultimately what we all desire for, you know, our health as well. Prevent problems. Don’t go into problems, just prevent.

And, and in labor, there is some things, basic things, right, that many breeders may take for granted. For me, it was not for granted. Right.

Like as a new breeder, I like, even the very basic foundation knowledge, I like, oh, OK, more water, more. OK, got it. More, you know, more water.

So it was not only the problems, it was that aspect as well. And, you know, even like other things I remember, for example, do you want to use big towels versus small towels? And it was, I think, one of the other breeders like, no, just have two towels, tiny ones per puppy.

It is more helpful than a bigger towel. Like, you know, things that are maybe so common for other people that are doing this for a long time. But to me, it was, it makes sense.

The other pro tip, it was like, use maybe white towels because then you can see the color of the discharge. And it’s helpful because it’s bleeding. Is what, is that dark?

Is that what it is? And having that white color, it was helpful. So things like that, very, very basic.

I think when you go through some education or anything, it brings this common sense, like, oh, OK, that makes sense. But for that, for that too, not only for problems, but for prevention too.

Julie Swan | 56:30

Yeah. So now what? Now what?

Just selling puppies and enjoying life?

Cristine Lista | 56:35

Now my puppies are six days old. This will be my first night back to work and leaving my puppies with my husband to take care of for the night. But yeah, no, I think the fun, I could probably spend most of my day just on the whelping box with my puppies and just enjoying them.

It’s not very practical for the rest of my life, you know, and things that I have to do, but it has been really a nice week to pause and just appreciate the miracle that is breeding and, and be, and this is Thanksgiving, you know, week that we are recording this. I don’t know when you’re going to air this, but to me this week is extra special to remind myself to be grateful and truly grateful for all the years that it took, all the people that I met through the journey of desiring to breed. And then finally you have a litter in your hands and kind of really appreciate the responsibility and joy that it is to care for a life that is with you.

And it’s just so special. It truly is to me, very, very deeply meaningful, deeply special. And I’m deeply, deeply grateful for that.

Yeah. So that’s where I am right now, but yeah, there will be in training once they open their eyes and I can’t wait to see the colors of their eyes, you know, and interact more with them. And I’m looking forward to enjoy every stage of puppies and, and I still, you know, selling and all that kind of those things that will come.

But for where I am right now, it’s just like a lot of gratitude and a lot of appreciation for them and for the journey.

Julie Swan | 58:36

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Any, all right.

So any advice for new breeders now that you’ve been here, you’ve done it?

Cristine Lista | 58:45

I’ve got three things. I think having, it’s so overrated, but like being patient with yourself, with your life and where you are, many, many times is not that time where you need to be, and you want to be, it just takes time. So be patient. And I want to tell that to myself, be patient, you know, enjoy the process is a process, enjoy a journey and focusing what you can do now, you know, and then the later will be later.

But right now I don’t have a big kennel. I have one dog. That’s my life.

I have my one dog, right. So enjoy where you are and don’t expect perfection. You know, just, you know, done is better than perfect.

We will all grow, and you will learn from the experience, but don’t expect perfect and keep moving, keep going and action. Action is better than just all these plans or just say, take action, one action every day, a little bit and enjoy the journey. It’s just such a, such a deep, a deep experience. Truly is.

Julie Swan | 1:00:03

Oh, that’s beautiful.  Thank you so much for taking the time to share your story with us.  Tell people where they can find you.

Cristine Lista | 1:00:09

They can find me at eversummermini.com, is my website.

And I wanted to take a minute Julie to appreciate and thank you for helping so many of us to really clear the way in what can be done, and what is possible.  I’m really grateful for you in my life, and for a lot of the breeders I met through your community.  It’s such a great uplifting community, and I know it takes a lot of work.  So thank you so much for what you do, and guiding people in the journey of breeding.

Julie Swan | 1:00:47

Thank you, it’s always fun working with everybody.  Thank you so much.

Cristine Lista | 1:00:56

Cool, and good luck if anybody is breeding, good luck.