12 Days of Breeders – #1 – Tara Schnetz of Waggin’ Tails Ranch Golden Retrievers

The 12 Days of Breeders is a series of interviews conducted with members of the Dog Breeder Society who are doing innovative, creative, and inspiring things in their dog breeding business.  In each of these interviews we cover challenges each breeder has encountered, and how they’ve overcome those challenges to find success in their breeding program.  Join me for all twelve of these interviews for inspiration, and countless actionable tips you can use to overcome (or avoid) challenges in your own dog breeding program!  You can check out all of the interviews in this series here.

Tara Schnetz & Waggin Tails Ranch Golden Retrievers

Tara has built her program from the bottom up! She started with livestock showmanship and her love for her dog and decided breeding Goldens was her path forward. She has built a wonderful program and discusses how she’s selling her puppies and how she was able to overcome the Covid craze and continually sell pups with little effort.

If you’re a new breeder looking for inspiration or want to learn how she’s tackled marketing in an easy-to-manage way, you’ll love this episode!

Learn more about Tara Schnetz and Waggin Tails Ranch Golden Retrievers

Transcript

Julie Swan | 0:00

Welcome to the Honest Dog Breeder podcast with me, your host Julie Swan, where each week we dive in to discuss all things dog breeding so you can build a breeding business you love, producing dogs that fulfill their owner’s dreams. I believe you can have an honest dog breeding program that also pays the bills. So throw those pods in your ears while you’re cleaning kennels, I’d love to join you.

All right guys, you’re in for a treat today. We have Tara Schnetz of Waggin’ Tails Ranch and she is a breeder of Golden Retrievers. Oh, Tara, I always love working with you and talking to you.

You’ve been inside the Dog Breeder Society since the beginning, one of our founding members, and it’s been so fun being with you on this journey. So tell us a little bit about Tara before you got into dog breeding.

Tara Schnetz | 0:52

Yeah, so I’m from a big family. There’s 12 of us kids and 10 of them are boys. So we’re all of us kids and we have a lot of livestock.

We kind of raised on a farm. We were homeschooled and we did a lot of livestock stuff as part of our homeschooling part where we would just go to all the 4-H classes and stuff. So we were big into all the sheep, goats, pigs, all that stuff growing up.

Julie Swan | 1:21

Do you have a favorite livestock you like working with?

Tara Schnetz | 1:25

Yeah, that’s a good question. I like the personality of pigs best, because they’re just so much like a dog, especially when you raise them one at a time. But the sheep were my specialty to show and that’s what I really did well in.

Julie Swan | 1:40

Nice, nice. Oh, and you just casually mentioned that you’re a book author, by the way, when we got on this call. You could tell everybody you wrote, is it a series of books? Or one big book?

Tara Schnetz | 1:54

They’re each stand-alones. They’re each on how to show the different animals. So one on sheep, one on goats, one on cows.

Julie Swan | 2:04

Yeah, yeah. I think that’s incredible because it is, like it’s such a weird world and I, as a parent who wants their kids to get into more stuff like that, having some kind of idea of what to expect, super helpful. So anyway, I will put that link down in the show notes so you’ll have it.

All right, so you grew up, you have four older brothers and six younger siblings, one sister, and then the rest boys. So it’s quite the, quite the numbers and family. And then you have your livestock you’re showing.

So where did dogs get into this? Did you ever show dogs?

Tara Schnetz | 2:42

Just with 4-H. So like again, it was like kind of like the teaser, but it was so big because you just learn how to train them and work with them. And we just did our family dogs.

So they were just crazy, whatever dog we had in our family, we would take it and show it and learn to do stuff. And I won a few things because I was super competitive, but yeah, the dogs were, you know, they were just whatever we had on the property.

And my parents did breed dogs back way back then, but I wasn’t enough a part of it that I thought I ever would do that.

Julie Swan | 3:13

Were you really little at that time?

Tara Schnetz | 3:14

Yeah.

Julie Swan | 3:15

Yeah. And what were they? What breed?

Tara Schnetz | 3:18

They’re called Schipperke, which are little black, fluffy dogs, kind of terrors sometimes. But we had some really, really sweet ones.

Julie Swan | 3:32

That’s fun. I think I actually looked at that breed as one of the breeds that was making the cut when I was choosing Rat Terriers. So that’s, yeah, they’re always near and dear.

I love them. They got a lot of personality.

Tara Schnetz | 3:44

Yeah.

Julie Swan | 3:45

And then you moved into, you said you had some sort of herding dog. Was it?

Tara Schnetz | 3:53

Yeah, I had a Queensland Heeler and I had an Australian Shepherd. And my Australian Shepherd was my favorite dog. And I raised her when I was the oldest. And I won a lot of stuff with her.

Julie Swan | 4:05

Yeah. And so is that, I know they train so easy.

Tara Schnetz | 4:10

Oh yes.

Julie Swan | 4:13

That’s very good. And then just for my own personal reasons, we all have an idea of what dog shows are, you know, which is, you know, there’s even that best in show movie, which is kind of funny. But if you with 4-H, what is the focus? You said it’s mostly training.

Is it mostly like taking care of dogs, or what is the rating scale as opposed, is it just, it’s not confirmation, is it? No, not usually.

Tara Schnetz | 4:44

I’m going to become a leader this year and I want to do it in showmanship first and then obedience. But usually people want obedience because they’re like, oh, we can do a free class where we can train our bad dog at home and our kids can learn how to do that. And so all the kids come with their dogs and they’re all in a ring or just, you know, they’re at the barn and you’re just teaching them how to sit and that kind of thing.

And then eventually you can get good enough to do, there’s like four or five different classes and you can go to real shows. We just, I only did 4-H, I only competed against other youth, but I could have gone a lot further if I like had that motivation or wanted to show against adults or anything.

Julie Swan | 5:24

That’s neat. Yeah. I just didn’t know what it was exactly.

So that makes sense. Because there’s usually not breeding in 4-H showing, at least not with dogs, right?

Tara Schnetz | 5:33

Yeah. A lot of it’s like sit down, stay, a three minute stay, three minute down, two minutes sit, whatever.

Julie Swan | 5:41

Oh, that makes sense. Perfect. Perfect.

But then you didn’t end up with any kind of herding dog. You didn’t have an Australian Shepherd or cattle dog. You end up going with Golden Retrievers.

So how did you pick to go into Golden Retrievers? Like how did you even get the idea to start breeding?

Tara Schnetz | 5:59

Yeah. That was super fun. The first reason why I picked them is my Australian and Queensland, especially, they would go, they would herd my younger siblings. Like they would sled down the hill, and the Australian would come and cut them off, and then go flying over the sled or whatever.

And they would come in and be like, “your dog did this”. And so it just became this thing where it was like, I was constantly defending my dog. And I was like, wait, it’s because she’s a herding dog. And she also like wouldn’t do it when I was there.

So she was like kind of sneaky or whatever. But yeah, so I thought I started researching and I was like, is there a dog that is like that clingy, like sweet, loving personality that’s not the herding dog, that we could just kind of get that part of where they have to be busy out of them, you know? And so I had picked the Golden Retriever long ago, and I really wanted them as my next dog.

Sorry, that was like big answer to the first part of your question. But then I went into breeding the Golden Retrievers. It was years and years later that I decided to do that.

And it was just one day I was at my friend’s house, and like I’d seen her Golden Retrievers and I started asking questions. They were like, oh yeah, we have puppies. And they went in the back and like showed me they’re day old puppies or whatever they were.

And we just started talking about the business side of it and everything they do. And I was like, “oh my goodness, I could do this”. And I could actually make money and not be pouring my money into something.

That’s why I had not done anything. I don’t own any livestock for years because I was waiting. I wanted to save my money and I didn’t want to be pouring into something at the time.

But I’ve just been like waiting for the time that I could. And so it was like, oh, here’s my opportunity. I can get back into animals, but I can dogs and the dog that I’ve always dreamed of.

And it was really fast that I decided this was exactly what I had been waiting to do something like this. And I got my first two dogs really shortly after that before a lot of research, but enough research I knew like they had elbows, hips, OFA, all that. But I learned a lot more later about that.

Julie Swan | 8:16

So this kind of was like, it was brewing sort of subconscious. And then all of a sudden you saw it and said oh man, I could do this. And it would actually like bring in income instead of take all my income, which I know is like a funny thing.

You know this, but for those listening, a lot of times you’ll find that people get into breeding and sort of this side hustle after they have a hobby farm because they realize hobby farms don’t make a ton of money and you have to do it because you love it. And then you can bring in breeding and it actually pays for the hobby farm. So I do see that model if you will, a lot.

But anyway, you know all these things. Okay. So you’ve got this, okay.

And you had two females to start, right? You’ve got two sisters. Is that?

Tara Schnetz | 9:00

Yes.

Julie Swan | 9:01

Not a bad way to go. And then you ended up shopping for a stud at that point, right?

So added a stud after, is that how that goes?

Tara Schnetz | 9:11

Yeah. And what happened was I had found your information and then I had listened to basically every podcast you had. And then I don’t know if I joined your course at that point.

I don’t know if you had it yet, but I was like, oh, I want to do what she’s doing. And I want to do more research than just picking two females like I did. And they’ve been amazing.

The personalities I got exactly what I wanted. But I was like trying to be like, oh, I could take this up another level. Because I don’t know if it was you or if it was someone else.

They said, yeah, it’s going to cost you the same amount to feed a good dog as a great one. And I was like, okay, well, I want to spend a little more, get a better dog. And so I got a lot better of a stud than my girls, I think.

But my dogs, they’re great dogs. But he’s like structure wise, I guess I would say. He turned out really good, I would think.

But I’m still learning. I don’t know exactly what I’m looking for.

Julie Swan | 10:08

You do pretty good. I noticed that with a lot of the stuff, the stuff you learn in livestock was structure. It just carries over.

You’re just looking for different features most of the time. But it’s the same. But do you find too, you had a better idea of what you wanted the second time you were purchasing a dog?

Tara Schnetz | 10:31

Yeah, I think I had already gotten what I wanted without knowing it in some ways. Like personality wise, because that’s what I was starting to figure out. Oh, I should make a focus for my Ideal Puppy Buyer and stuff like that.

My girls were that way personality wise, but not like I didn’t understand what I wanted with build and structure and all that yet. And of course, they passed all their OFA and stuff like that. And they don’t have to be hunting dogs or anything.

But it’s cool to do a little bit more and like try to learn more at least and yeah, find a better dog in the end.

Julie Swan | 11:10

Yeah, I totally agree with you. And it is something that I found too, that every time I go shopping for a dog, to add to my program, I know more of what I’m looking for. And it takes longer, I find the longer you’ve been doing it, it’s harder to find a dog that lets you retain what you want, and then bring in what you’re looking to keep, or at least add or however you want to work at.

But yeah, it’s interesting. And I guess that’s pretty much your experience as well is that, you know, you love things. And there is a difference between having a dog that’s healthy and structurally sound and also being the look you want.

Sometimes they’re not the look you want, but there’s nothing wrong with them. I have that with some really springy German short hairs that their back is a little bit more arched than I’d like just because of their bone structure. They’re fine.

Tara Schnetz | 11:59

Yeah, that makes sense. Kind of like, livestock.

Yeah, we look at build all the time. And if I if I didn’t know better, I’d probably look at build only but for a family dog people, maybe they look at the head, but they’re not looking at structure in that way.

Julie Swan | 12:21

Yeah, I think that’s true. Because I do have some occasionally I throw really ugly German short hair. And people will be like, this is the best looking dog.

And I’m like, Oh, God, I’m glad you think so. All right, so good. So your stud came in a little later.

And so your first litter, your girls were probably close to 18 months. Does that sound about right?

Tara Schnetz | 12:44

Probably.

Julie Swan | 12:46

And so at that point, did you? What did you do in those 18 months while you were waiting? Obviously, you picked up a stud.

But what did you do to prepare for the breeding program, the business side? Because you mentioned that was already on your brain? What did you do?

Tara Schnetz | 13:03

I do a lot of research, like, in terms of the OFA testing, and all that, and scheduling that kind of stuff. Of course, I didn’t have their hip done yet, but I had all the history. And then I did, I just was obsessed.

I’ve always been like, when I wrote my book, I’ve been like, overly researching stuff. And that’s kind of what I did. And why I wanted to join your class so soon, because it was just like pouring information into me to be like, Oh, I could do this, I could do that, I could do that.

And just deciding how I’m going to sell my dogs and do those things. Probably I should have even made a website back then. But people I got my first Golden’s from, they did everything through AKC, and they sold every puppy they ever had that way.

And I kind of thought, Oh, that’d be how it’ll continue to be. But the price, like the price that I paid for my girls dropped significantly by the time they had their puppies. Like the price that Golden’s were selling for.

Julie Swan | 14:06

Oh, yeah, I see what you’re saying. And you more or less got your girls at the tail end of the COVID boom. So that’s when everybody was wanting puppies everywhere.

And so it was very easy to sell dogs. And so that does make sense that AKC Marketplace would have been a great place. So did you did you end up using AKC Marketplace to sell that first litter?

Tara Schnetz | 14:28

I did, yeah. And I got tons of notes where it was like, okay, this many are selling through AKC, and this many to other places. I think in the very beginning, I had a little bit more trouble than they did.

And I started like doing flyers at feed stores. I didn’t overly market. And I didn’t just sit around and wait, because I was kind of listening to your stuff and being like, “Oh, I should just be proactive”.

And so that helped me a lot knowing to like go out. And find ways to make my dogs known.

Julie Swan | 14:59

That makes sense. Did you were you trying to get people on your Instagram at that point in time? Or were you collecting emails?

Or what did you do to kind of to get the word out ahead of time?

Tara Schnetz | 15:11

First thing I did, like social media wise was just Instagram. And they’re pretty much just videos of my dogs. And then I put music to it or something.

And I announced my litters that way, and like sharing trying to get all my friends on there. But actually, I did, I did sell a puppy through Instagram. But I drifted away from that, like posts all the time.

But it’s, my Instagram is almost purely for buyers who already put a deposit down. And it’s like, here’s your puppy, I’ll post once a week photos and videos. And you can see that.

I don’t try to market on there, because it doesn’t seem to be what it does for me. It doesn’t attract the buyers I want either necessarily, that I’ve seen yet. Maybe it’s just because I’m small.

But I enjoy it. So I’ve kept that up. But no, like the email list and making a website, I did that later.

And I wish I did that a lot sooner.

Julie Swan | 16:06

That makes sense. Yeah, you end up so how did you if you remember, did you have any deposits down on your litter? Prior to the first litter being born?

Tara Schnetz | 16:16

No, I don’t believe so.

Julie Swan | 16:18

Okay. And so you ended up marketing them all once they were born and moving forward. So you took your Instagram said, Hey, look, we have puppies, yada yada, you got at least a sale from that.

And then do you remember how else you got sales for that?

Tara Schnetz | 16:31

Yeah, super funny. I have it right in front of me. I got all of them were AKC, except one was a referral from someone else who had a puppy in that litter.

Oh, okay. So that was the first one. And then the second one was probably like half and half like feed stores.

And then it just slowly like drifted further and further away from AKC. Because there’s just so many breeders there and not very many buyers compared to what I think there used to be.

Julie Swan | 16:58

Yeah, that makes sense. I think again, the market is shifting with everyone’s marketing going to this more personal one-on-one relationship with the breeder seems to be good. So now you’ve had a couple years in you’ve had eight litters.

How is the marketing now you got your website up your email list? What do you see different?

Tara Schnetz | 17:20

Yeah, so basically, if I can give anyone advice, it’s like just do what you say to do. My brother and I think it was actually before you had the website course up. He was like, Okay, I want a website.

Maybe you did a podcast on it. But I was like, I’m gonna do it. And so it’s probably in December of last year.

So we got the website up. And what we did that was the biggest impact was the Google listing, the Google business listing. Now, I think that’s everything.

I think the website would never have been found. I don’t know how that all works. But it seems like everybody’s finding me through that.

So we put up the Google listing. And then I continued to do things the same way I was. And I struggled a lot to sell those dogs probably this last December through March.

And then I didn’t have any litters April and May. And then in April, the litter was coming but not here yet. And I was getting calls.

And it just started coming in from that Google listing and the website. And I was getting applications. And it’s like the website just kind of needed to get traction and the Google listing.

I got reviews on there. So I made sure I did that. We had tons of photos, it just looked really nice.

So the Google listing, I think is the easiest part to set up. It’s easier than setting up a website, right?

Julie Swan | 18:45

Yeah, absolutely, it’s so fast. You can do your Google listing in like a morning. You know, we have a whole MasterClass on it if people want it.

But I think you’re very lucky, because your brother like had the tech hookup too, which was really nice. But you’re saying you I think you had told me so you started working on the website in December, it was probably mostly up in say, January, got the Google listing going in January or so. And then it took about five or six months to get real traction on it.

Does that feel about right?

Tara Schnetz | 19:16

Yeah. Even though I collected almost all my reviews early, it just kind of took a while. Oh, yeah, to be found, I think or something.

Or maybe it was like, also, I noticed if I have something like really relevant on there, then it makes a difference. They’ll say, okay, that she’s pregnant due in June, then it’s like, oh, we know there’s a litter. So then they start applying.

So maybe they were there all along, but they weren’t like calling or reaching out. And as soon as I had that relevant information, I was getting applications and phone calls. And I had puppies sold, many puppies sold before they were born.

And then the rest of the litter pretty quickly after they were born. So it was pretty steady.

Julie Swan | 19:58

Pretty good, especially because this is supposed to be a tough time for people to be selling dogs. And here you are relatively new. And yet you’re getting this going because your website is addressing all those issues.

And I will say anecdotally, what I’ve seen is the Google listing, the Google reviews, once you have five reviews, Google pays attention. But it it wants to know that you’re not like some fly by night business. And so when your business, your Google listing is about six months old, that’s when Google’s like, okay, we know you’re not going anywhere, or at least you’re more trustworthy than you were a couple months ago.

And that’s when I’m noticing big traction picking up because I, yeah, I, I broke my Rat Terriers off from my GSPs this past spring. And I’m getting to that six months and I’m starting to see. Yeah.

And for all of you, this is December, you’re listening, but we’re recording in August. So just so you know.

Tara Schnetz | 20:57

Yeah. And one other thing I’d say about that is when people reach out to you through that, rather than like AKC or something, they reach out and they’ll say things like “there’s no other breeders around”. And I know, I know there’s a lot of other breeders and I know they have puppies and they’ll reach out to me and, I say, well, this is my price.

Does that work for you? And they were like, well, I guess it has to, you know, there’s, I don’t want to go to Oregon or, you know, and I’m like, oh, well, I guess, you know, it’s just a cool thing that it other breeders don’t think of it. They’re not doing these Google listings and stuff.

And like, even my friends, you know, who I bought my original females from, I was helping them because they, they never did any of this. They always did AKC and they were just kind of like a family doing their breeding. And it was like, here, you can build a Google listing.

And then they started selling as well, but it’s like, it’s the thing I think to do for marketing to start with, at least it’s the most impact.

Julie Swan | 22:01

I agree. I think it starts well. And even if you have all a small website, having it attached to the Google listing with some reviews is wonderful.

And you have like, I have the cheat sheet for the five pages, every breeder website needs. And like, if you can’t do anything else to start there, like, that’s great. I know your website has much more on it and your pictures are awesome.

I really, really like your pictures. You guys can see her website. I’ll put it in the show notes as well.

But yeah, so that’s good. Have you noticed going from the buyers you got on AKC marketplace to the ones you’re getting now off your website from your Google search? Do you notice any difference in the people you’re attracting?

Are they better for you?

Tara Schnetz | 22:50

I think the buyers I used to get, I think maybe there’s a difference. If I get buyers through AKC now, a lot of times they go to AKC and then to my website. So they’re still almost the same buyer, sort of like person that’s, they’re reading my website and going, oh, this is what I want.

And they’re usually very sold. Whereas like from AKC, it was like, they probably reached out to five breeders and they were kind of seeing, and they were like interviewing me a lot. Whereas now it’s kind of like, Hey, I’m interested in a puppy.

And I’ll tell them, okay, well the next step is apply. And then they apply and then I go, okay, the next step is a phone call. And we just kind of like do a phone call and we’re done.

They’re like, yep, you’re the person I want the dog from. Um, and so it’s, I don’t know, it’s just more straightforward. And it’s not like, I don’t feel like I’m competing.

I feel like they don’t even know there’s other breeders out there. Like they should know, but they don’t, you know, it’s like, yeah.

Julie Swan | 23:46

I get it. I totally get it. I think what’s also happening there that, should be noted is they’re going on AKC marketplace. They’re finding people maybe in their area, right? A lot of people think AKC is like this giant database of breeders, which in a way it kind of can be, but it’s not exactly the way people think it would operate.

So like from a buyer trying to use it as that way. So AKC marketplace can sort of serve as a kind of directory. So then they find your website.

And what’s cool is that there’s probably people that aren’t a good fit for you that find your website and take themselves out of that process working with you before they call you. So while some people are like, “Oh, that might be terrible”. It’s actually a great thing because you’re not dealing with people that aren’t a good fit.

And your website does that work for you? Not you. So you don’t have to call these people and be like, yeah, so I don’t want to sell you a dog.

Tara Schnetz | 24:37

Yeah. And now that you said that I get less questions about like what testing I have, or less questions about what I don’t have, you know, it would be like, Oh, you know, do you do this? And it’s like, well, I don’t, but I guess now they kind of know I don’t cause they checked my website or whatever.

Julie Swan | 24:56

Yeah. Do you have an example?

Tara Schnetz | 24:58

What I’ve always done with my dogs is like a basic cardiac OFA. And I’m learning that a lot of the Golden Retriever breeders are doing the advanced cardio. And so like someone would ask about that and they’d be like, Oh, do you have an advanced cardio test on them or something like that?

Whereas I don’t even get those questions anymore.

Julie Swan | 25:22

Yeah.

Tara Schnetz | 25:23

Yeah.

Julie Swan | 25:24

I know they’re moving towards that one with GSPs. I found out too. It’s just, you’re going to a cardiologist to get the cardiac test, instead of just the normal vet who used to listen to murmurs.

Now I mean my vet, gosh, she’s been doing it for 20 years. Like I’m pretty sure she can tell a heart murmur, but you know how it goes. The breed clubs do what they do.

So, so that makes sense. So yeah. So just putting that information out there, especially if you’ve never had heart murmur issues, yeah, I get it.

Tara Schnetz | 25:55

Yeah. And then, and the more I breed and like, now I’m getting settled. It’s like, Oh, it’s really easy to just add the rest of these tests. That’ll be something I’ll be adding a few of those, like more in depth, like versions of things.

Julie Swan | 26:12

Yeah, absolutely. I know. And you can do a lot more with some of this stuff too.

You know, with like Embark opening up their testing to more and more things. And I know Embark is still sorting through everything and getting more, more statistics for every breed. But I think if we just keep using them, give them more data to work with, they’ll get even better.

I do like their user interface. It’s pretty handy. So that makes sense.

So that makes sense a lot. All right. So big question.

All these new breeders are out there. They’re like, Oh my gosh, the first whelping, what was it like? Was it crazy?

Was it easier than you thought? Harder than you thought?

Tara Schnetz | 26:50

Whelping to me wasn’t, but I think for most breeders probably. Yeah, it was just, I’m comfortable with like, okay, if this, I do this. So with that, you know, when should I go to the vet? I guess with the dogs, I was less sure about when I would go to the vet and stuff.

And I made that mistake at one point. They went to an emergency vet and all that. And there wasn’t a need to after all, but I think there was since I didn’t know, but, like I just learned for next time.

But, yeah, in terms of most whelping, it’s just simple. I mean, there’s a lot of times I get like a puppy stuck or something, but it was just like walk them up and down the stairs or, you know, something simple like that. But for the most part, just like figuring out what works for you, have all your equipment.

I watched YouTube videos. There’s a lot of breeders who like just do live. There’s a couple of breeders, I guess I do like live birth on there.

And like, I enjoyed watching all that before I even had puppies, like going over all their stuff. And, like I said, I just research it maybe more than most people.

Julie Swan | 27:55

I think it’s great. I mean, YouTube is like, I mean, I had to fix my sink the other day. YouTube.

I had to find out how to change the battery on my car clicker, YouTube. I mean, it’s wonderful. But you also had a bunch of experience with the livestock and a lot of breeders who get into this, have some experience with livestock.

Was it different with livestock or was it pretty similar?

Tara Schnetz | 28:26

It’s a lot lower stakes with livestock. I mean, they’re born and they just jump up and they go nurse, and you just leave them out in the barn and the moms are good, or usually like put them in a smaller pen together, so they bond and stuff like that. But with the dogs, for me, they’re in my room.

I’m right there with them. The biggest thing that I love is the temperature checks. Cause you can predict it.

And I like have extensive notes. I’m like, okay, she goes exactly 12 hours from when her temperature drops or she goes 24 hours from when her temperature drops. And so I have all these notes and I can be like, “oh yeah, I’m going to go ahead and go out to dinner because it’s going to be, you know, it’s not going to happen today or it’s not going to happen till tomorrow”.

You, can be so comfortable in that sense. I’d say probably the biggest surprise is not, well, for me it wasn’t whelping, it was facilities. So you like, you get to one stage and then all of a sudden you’re like, “oh, it was so easy for the last two weeks and now there’s poop everywhere”.

You know? So just like the, the surprise stages. And those happen like, I’d say maybe three times.

So you like fix it, make it bigger, make it, change it, add potty trays, whatever. And then a couple of weeks later, you’re going to have the next surprise because now that area is too small for them or whatever.

Julie Swan | 29:44

And that makes sense. And you’re thinking so that for me, basically when the puppies start, I wouldn’t think like they’re walking and they’re able to go to the bathroom on their own. Like, so that’s somewhere usually between two and three weeks.

That’s when the poop really starts. Up until then, it’s like, I could do anything. I can go on vacation.

Tara Schnetz | 30:00

Oh, this is easy. I could do dogs forever.

Julie Swan | 30:06

And you’re right. And then I think at weaning, right, is when you also get another shift because they’re getting more independent and the poop changes because it’s not nursing poop anymore. And then probably what, like six or seven weeks, I think they really get big.

Is that what you found?

Tara Schnetz | 30:27

Yeah, it might be a little bit earlier for me because I try to keep them inside because it’s so hot outside. And I don’t have like, you know, I can run fans and I can run misters over them, but I try to keep them inside as long as possible. So I usually get the poop stage, and then I get the bored stage, probably around four or five weeks they have to go outside, and we’ll just figure it out. And then they have a whole concrete pad, they have outdoor dirt and all that.

But at the same time, it’s like, OK, well, now this is great. It’s big, it’s clean. And then all of a sudden, yeah, they get to the next stage where it’s like they’re climbing fences if they’re not in a big enough area or whatever, you know, like they just keep they keep having stages.

And every time I have a litter, I improve those facilities. And I actually thought that was the hardest part, but that’s because I did breeding animals before.

So like whelping was easier for me. It’s like having – Golden Retrievers are big, and there’s like 10 puppies in a litter.

Julie Swan | 31:31

Yeah, the difference between a seven puppy litter and 10 or 11 puppy litter is insane. You wouldn’t think it would be that much work, but it’s a ton of different work.

Tara Schnetz | 31:41

Yeah, yeah.

Julie Swan | 31:43

And that makes sense, too, because your livestock, I think in livestock, people really think about facilities when you’re getting into livestock. It’s almost the first thing you think about, where am I going to put this? I’m getting a horse.

Where does it go? I’m getting a cow. Where does it go?

You know, but it’s like a dog. It just lives in your house. And then all of a sudden now you have 10 more and you’re like, oh, yeah, I need to put them somewhere.

It is funny how because they’re domestic and live with us that we don’t think about that in the same way.

Tara Schnetz | 32:10

They’re just like your adult dogs. Then it’s 10 toddlers running around without diapers on. It doesn’t work.

Julie Swan | 32:21

That is a great analogy. Oh, my God, I just got that visual of all the kids running around. All right, cool.

So first litter cool. And then you said you improve things a little bit each time, which totally makes sense. And I think I still make a tweak with every single litter.

You know, and I’m 80 something litters in and I’m still making tiny adjustments with everything. Oh, let me change that water dish. Oh, let me add this.

And I think that’s just a natural part of it. And I wish more breeders would get in the mindset that it doesn’t have to be perfect the first time. It’s going to be fine. You’re going to make mistakes, just don’t let them die and do the best you can, you know. So now that you’ve done eight, though, how is it now you’ve had eight litters?

Is it I mean, you said it’s easier, you know, when they’re going to go because you’ve been tracking timing. Does it feel more just course of business?

Tara Schnetz | 33:17

Yeah, it feels like I don’t stress about any of it anymore. But it’s just the time is never going to disappear. Yeah, you have to be home at these times.

Vacations are going to be a little bit harder. You are going to be like, oh, this is the you know, I had to be home this week and we thought we were going to go camping or you know, whatever it is. So those kind of things with the facilities, the work goes way down.

But I think that’s part of it. And yeah, I mean, stress wise, I don’t worry about it. Also, once you have a little bit of money, I built an emergency fund.

I’m like, I’m going to the vet, I can go to the vet, you know, and that stress is off me. So I don’t know if that answers your question or not.

Julie Swan | 34:01

No, it’s great. It’s great. So I guess for you, the whelping was never too crazy, and Golden Retrievers as a whole are pretty good whelpers.

Like you’re not running into emergency c-sections with them very often. Like that’s kind of a unique situation. And they’re good moms.

So that’s really nice. I think it takes a lot of the weight off having those two things in place. But I love that because you’re able to kind of predict and prepare.

So, for me, it is non-negotiable to have natural whelping and good moms and natural breeding, because I, to me, the complication and time invested in AI and c-sections and cost is just not, to me, it’s not worth the unpredictability that comes with it. But again, I don’t have it managed well. So I haven’t taken that route.

But I think so I think that’s good. And then you took that time. So did you pick a certain proportion, like, percentage wise of what you made per puppy or per litter?

Or did you set a number for yourself to set to put into an emergency fund with each one? Or how did you come to that number?

Tara Schnetz | 35:12

Yeah, I mean, originally, I was like, “Okay, well, what would be like a normal probably vet visit?” I guess I was thinking like, you know, $2000-$3,000 would be pretty safe, like, I’d have to drop that right away without being prepared. Or like, if I wanted to, like replace a puppy that like someone took and something happened to or wanted to refund them.

That was like, Okay, I want to have $3000 set aside. And because I was already kind of a saver personality, then that was not too hard to kind of just pour that into there and be like, “Okay, I can’t touch this, unless it’s an actual emergency with the dogs,” right. And so then that’s just set aside.

And then dog, like costs and stuff. I just pay for the cost of the puppies and keep everything else in my own budget. I don’t like retain it.

If that’s what you mean.

Julie Swan | 36:11

Yeah, I wasn’t sure. So you roll the cost into your own personal budget. So like, you kind of pay for everything out of your like, your job.

Do you I think you work part-time or full-time?

Tara Schnetz | 36:22

Oh, that’s a tricky question. Yeah. Um, I could go on forever.

Yeah, I do a lot of different jobs. I run a camp in the spring. And I write in the summer.

And I’m now doing dogs. So like, I have my own side businesses. I don’t have to go to work every day.

Except in April and May, which happens to be when I don’t have puppies right now. But when I went into breeding, I was already surviving and living off that. So it was kind of 100% of the income went into that emergency fund.

And then it started to help my income as well. But it didn’t need to, because I kept living like I didn’t have that money. Until I had that emergency fund built.

Julie Swan | 37:10

That makes sense. That makes sense. So you basically took the first maybe couple of litters, or something like that, and reinvested it into the business.

Maybe you paid yourself back for the purchase of your dogs. And then I’m sure you take a little bit of money and put it into your facilities.

Tara Schnetz | 37:29

Yeah, a lot into the facilities.

Julie Swan | 37:31

That seems to be the heavy expense afterwards.

Tara Schnetz | 37:34

Yeah, it’s very worth it.

Julie Swan | 37:37

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And then for breeders wondering about how much time when you have a litter on the ground?

How much time a day are you spending physically managing that litter?

Tara Schnetz | 37:50

It changes pretty much as it goes along. Right now I have a litter that’s like two weeks old. So I mean, honestly, it’s like mom is doing everything.

I’m just like cleaning their bed pad, making sure their water’s full. I take them and take photos or videos, because I do Instagram, I probably do an hour so. At least at least an hour a week, where I’m just sitting like editing, and doing the social media stuff.

But like with them, and it’s gonna be when I hit the next stage, it’s gonna be like, okay, it’s gonna be an hour every morning when I’m changing puppy pads, or, you know, their trays, or their pellets, or like sweeping, and when they’re outside is more like that as well. I’d probably say it’s not, I mean, if you’re adding up how much time I’m cleaning and stuff, it’s not more than an hour.

Julie Swan | 38:44

An hour a day to manage the dogs when they’re in their crazy stage.

Tara Schnetz | 38:48

Yeah.

Julie Swan | 38:49

And then an hour or so a week with Instagram. And then including taking the videos or, or just editing.

Tara Schnetz | 38:59

As they get older, what I personally do is a lot of times I’ll do a video per puppy per week. So then it gets to be a lot more, it could be an hour, or it could be 30 minutes to an hour a day or something where I’m doing that. But I’ll just like, get the videos and then edit them real quick.

So I mean, but I enjoy it. So it kind of isn’t as much of a worry. Yeah.

Julie Swan | 39:22

Yeah. So you would say you’re easily under, probably under 15 hours of work a week to manage your dog breeding program. And you currently have what, three breeding dogs in your program?

Tara Schnetz | 39:38

Yeah. Yeah. But it goes up and down.

So that’s why it’s inconvenient. I guess it’s not like you do an hour a day. It’s like, okay, well, one day you’re going to do, you know, half the day because you’re gonna be washing everybody, you’re gonna do all their nails, you’re going to be taking them to the vet.

So there’s up and down of hours. So that’s why other jobs would be like, yeah, an hour a day. And that’s it.

But with the dogs, it’s like, oh, yeah, well, one day a week, you have to do this thing or you have to, you know, or random days throughout your worming and your shots. So it’s as it would be. That’s, that’s the difference with dog breeding is that it’s not like an hour a day and you’re good.

Julie Swan | 40:22

Right. I think it’s often best thought about in a week timeframe. So in a week, you’re at like 15 hours or less.

And sometimes that’s eight hours in one day and then an hour every other day. And I think that is kind of the beauty of dog breeding, but maybe one of the curses too, because in some sense that is unpredictable. Like you can’t just be like, you know, but for a lot of it, you could like, you could decide every Tuesday was your day to wash puppies and take photos.

Like you could do that.

Tara Schnetz | 40:50

Yeah.

Julie Swan | 40:51

I think a lot of breeders love the flexibility anyway, to be like, well, I feel like getting coffee with my friend this morning.

So I’ll do that tomorrow.

Tara Schnetz | 40:57

Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of people think like a lot of breeders that I followed originally are like, yeah, the day they turn, you know, two weeks old, you got to do two week photos and all that.

And my personal philosophy is, if I get a photo a week or a video week, that’s good. I do it the day before they turn three weeks old sometimes. And it’s like, here’s their two week photos.

Like they’re getting a photo every week, but it’s not the day. And nobody, nobody knows any different. It’s not like they’re following all these breeders that I’m following.

I just do it the way I do it and they’re happy, you know, I’m doing more than a lot of breeders too, like by doing those photos.

Julie Swan | 41:38

I’m not that good towards the end. Once we start picking who gets what puppy, I really suck at sending pictures on the regular, you know, I mean for me, but it’s all, we all have our fights. Right.

Tara Schnetz | 41:50

Yeah. And I don’t take photos anymore. I just take videos. Like I set the puppy away where he’s looking away from me, and then I back up, and then they look at me and run towards me and I’m videoing.

And then that video goes up on Instagram and then I screenshot photos out. And those are the photos. I don’t try to do like sit still. Here’s a photo. I never, I don’t do that.

Julie Swan | 42:12

That is a great secret. Did you guys catch that?

So she records the video and then pauses it and takes screenshots to get her stills. Oh my God, that’s brilliant.

Tara Schnetz | 42:22

And they’re really cute because they’re running towards you and they’re usually, their head is up and their tongue is out. Yeah.

Julie Swan | 42:29

Wow, that is secret sauce right there. Um, perfect. Perfect.

What was the easiest thing that you thought would be hard and the hardest thing that you thought would be easy?

Tara Schnetz | 42:44

Easiest thing I thought would be hard. I guess I really thought selling the puppies, like talking to the buyers on the phone, and knowing what to say, and admitting that I’m breeding dogs would be really hard. Because I don’t like criticism, or people saying, well, why are you doing that? Are you a puppy mill?

But that’s actually been really a part that I love. Not that people are criticizing me. But I love talking to the buyers, and explaining why my dogs are great and what I love about them.

So that’s been something that’s been way easier than I thought. And then what’s been harder. I guess it’s just the surprises.

Like, you know, that it’s going to happen, but like a dog gets hurt at the worst possible timing, you know, it’s like, okay, we’re going to spend the whole day going to the vet and seeing what is going on. But my one girl, she had two litters of 10 and then she had a litter of three. And, so I thought I felt a puppy.

And so I took her to the vet, and the vet comes in like, “yep, I feel it too”. We’re going to do an ultrasound and then we’ll do the C-section. And then it turns out they did the ultrasound and there was no puppies.

But before that they gave me a quote and it was like a million tiny fees. And I was like, well, don’t do this. Like it was trying to learn to advocate and I just hated it.

It was like, well, why are you doing this test? And why are you doing this? And why are you doing that?

And I got the price way down. Like they wanted to keep her for like three days after the surgery. And I was like, I can keep her in my room.

And you know, for me, who’s done livestock, I’m like, I’m not going to pay you, you know, whatever it was a thousand dollars a day or whatever to keep my dog when I could do it myself at home, you know, she could be at home and she could be with her puppies that are already born, you know? Because if, you know, if she has a C-section, she’s like, she needs to be, I thought, you know, so anyways, learning to advocate, that’s been the hardest. That was one of the hardest things is like, how do I stand up for my dogs and stuff?

Yeah.

Julie Swan | 45:04

And it’s very possible to feel like you can get capsized on your finances in one bad vet visit like that. And you’re absolutely right. Every time I go to the vet, I swear I’m lining out half the stuff they come to me with the estimate for, because it’s like, you know, we know they’re dealing with this, you know, I don’t need you run blood work.

We know what it is, you know, and it drives you crazy. So yeah, I think that is really hard and it it’s better and worse depending on where you live and the vets that you go to. I think that’s the one thing, like I’ll go to the vet and my vet will charge me $130 because they know not to add that stuff in, but I’ll have one of my puppy buyers go for the same thing and they’ll get a $350, $400 bill because they added all this extra crap, you know?

Tara Schnetz | 45:52

Yeah.

Julie Swan | 45:53

So that makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

And trusting yourself to say no to a vet who’s standing there being like, you need this.

Tara Schnetz | 46:01

Yeah.

Julie Swan | 46:02

That makes a lot of sense.

Tara Schnetz | 46:03

Some of them I’m like asking her, like, why does she need this test? And why does she need that? You know?

And some of them it’s like, okay, that makes sense. And then it’s like, but that one doesn’t, her staying here to be monitored doesn’t make sense to me, you know, because of whatever. So some things, you know, you just have to kind of figure out what, what makes sense and what doesn’t.

Julie Swan | 46:24

Yeah. No, I totally, I totally agree with you. Totally agree.

Because you’re definitely not old. Have you run into anything with buyers giving you a hard time because you look younger?

Tara Schnetz | 46:40

Not too much. I’ve had someone at one time when my mom was visiting and they came and they started talking to her instead of me, they were kind of like, Oh. Yeah, it just depends on things like that. But I think because I like go out and greet them and they’re like coming to visit dogs at the house or whatever, like, Hey, come on in or come over here.

You know? And it’s like, Oh, she’s the one. I also have my photos on stuff now.

Julie Swan | 47:07

So they, they already know ahead of time. Yeah.

Tara Schnetz | 47:10

If I can’t get a video of the puppy cause it won’t stay away from me. Then I’ll do a lot of videos of them like up next to me and like selfie photos that way or whatever, because they’re too clingy. They don’t want to run away to get a good shot, you know, or something.

So people know my face more maybe now.

Julie Swan | 47:27

Do you find that actually builds more trust with people?

Tara Schnetz | 47:30

Maybe, I don’t know.

Julie Swan | 47:32

Yeah. I’d be interested to see. I, I really didn’t like to put my face in things a lot when I started doing Instagram and all kinds of stuff.

Because I’m like, nobody wants to see me, they want to see puppies, you know? And then I realized that they kind of get used to it and they sort of expect, like, they expect to see my hands in a video or whatever with puppies. So it’s interesting.

Tara Schnetz | 47:53

And I think it makes it more personal. It’s like the puppy’s here with me.

It’s like, Oh, look, she likes her dogs. You know, it’s not just the puppy.

Julie Swan | 48:01

You mean, you don’t stick them in a dirty wire crate and take pictures. All right. I’ve seen some winners online.

Okay. Well, that’s so good. So anything else you’d like to chime in, any other advice to new breeders, things you wish you knew, glad you did.

Tara Schnetz | 48:20

I think the thing that I’m the most glad I did is finding mentors, you know, especially you, the podcast was like my favorite thing. I like went down, found the bottom one and like listened to them all the way up. And then having someone that you agree with what they’re doing and you can kind of follow and ask questions.

But also, yeah, just being realistic. Cause I know like some people, I guess it’s not me personally, but someone else who wants to jump into breeding. It’s like, Oh, this will be easy.

Because like, well, you’re going to be really surprised when they get to be four weeks old or whatever. But yeah, I guess my advice would just be to, I mean, if you’re just starting out right now and you’re like listening to the podcast, Julie’s podcast and it’s like, just like listen to everything. Maybe even take the course so you can know about like Google listings.

And I don’t know is there’s people who know how to do it and you can just, you don’t have to learn by yourself, I guess.

Julie Swan | 49:20

Yeah, I agree. I think, yeah. I would say that breeding is, there’s not a single part of breeding that’s particularly difficult.

Like each thing in its own little piece is kind of easy, but it’s, when you put it all together, I feel like that’s what makes it difficult because now you’re like have competing resources. Like you have money coming in from a litter, okay, well, where’s that money going to go? It’s like, how do I do this?

Or I have an hour of time. What am I going to spend it on? Where am I going to start marketing?

How am I going to build this? Like, it feels like it’s all the questions that makes breeding hard. Is that kind of your experience going through it?

Tara Schnetz | 50:02

Yeah. I think so, yeah. The culmination of everything, trying to learn all the little pieces.

For me, that wasn’t as hard because I had you, and I had your class, and I had the podcast. What really like stressed me out the most was like finding a buyer and like the puppy’s getting older and older and older. And so like that part of it, having that stress on top of everything else is hard.

So like there’s pieces that you’re like, how do you solve that if you’re not working towards it?

Julie Swan | 50:41

Yeah. So I think you’re right. I think marketing may be the hardest part of dog breeding because it’s not simply just selling something.

It’s a living animal, and you have to find a good match, and you have to make sure that they’re taken care of, and that the buyer knows what they’re getting into, and being there to support them. Like I feel like the stakes are high in aligning people. And so doing that marketing, like all the stuff you’ve done, it’s just been awesome.

It was so fun. You were in, you chimed in the other day and somebody was having a rough time marketing dogs and you were like, look, these are the things I did. It’s working.

And like, here you are like making so much ground in marketing and selling your dogs ahead of time. And we have a lot of people who are simply not having the same success. So I would say it’s out there, right?

You’re making it happen. You’re proof it works. And it’s just cool.

It’s so cool to see it because you’ve just done so much.

Tara Schnetz | 51:46

Yeah. At a certain point you become to the point where you’re like, wait a second, I can’t sell the litter that’s going to be due in March. Like, you want to be on that list, but I might want to skip that litter.

You know, it’s like so far out, but once you have a website up, people are going to start asking you about that. Yeah. And you’ll be like, okay, let me start keeping really good notes for the different litters or whatever.

And yeah, it’s a lot nicer when you have things set up. Facilities and websites, like.

Julie Swan | 52:17

Facilities and websites. I love that. All right, cool. That’s the title of the episode, facilities and websites.

All right. Thank you so much for coming on the show and for sharing your experience. It’s just always, always a pleasure talking to you.

Tara Schnetz | 52:32

Yeah. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

This was super fun.